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Old 06-07-2018, 12:51 PM   #21
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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Originally Posted by thrash View Post
The problem is that delving per se doesn't provide much of what is traditionally considered plot to build a property around. Even in an episodic TV show, how could it be structured so that (a) each episode has a story, but (b) that story is not just the Defeat the Monster of the Week and Take Its Stuff? This is why the examples you mention use the dungeon crawl as an element in a larger story.
I agree with this. Also, even prototypical delvers, as depicted in the DFRPG, don't spend most of their time in dungeons. Dungeoneering takes up most of the game time because the game is fundamentally a combat/puzzle-solving/resource-management activity. But, within the fiction, characters often spend weeks or months (even years in some campaigns) between expeditions. As thrash mentions above, the types of stories that people expect from a film—with backstory, context, character development, etc.—require more screen time be spent on activities that are often off-screen in the actual game. One could say that movies are a better representation of broader GURPS Fantasy than pure Dungeon Fantasy.

With all of that said, I don't think anyone has mentioned webcasts like HarmonQuest. It features actual tabletop RPG sessions that are then animated. Sessions are short and feature lots of standard dungeon fantasy tropes. Plenty of laughs, too.
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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However, there is no equivalent movie or TV series to do the same for dungeon crawl games because at their core, they are not inspired by cinema, but rather by video games.
I'm not an expert on all of the cultural history involved here, but I think you may be getting it backward. My understanding is that the dungeon fantasy genre in roleplaying games emerged from literature (e.g., the list in Appendix N of the original Dungeon Master's Guide). After D&D became popular, it then influenced the evolution of video games. I clearly remember when the phrase "tabletop roleplaying games" would have sounded redundant... all RPGs were tabletop. (I even recall laughter at the idea that you could call a video game a "roleplaying game" since there was never any role-playing, at least in the early years.) It wasn't until later that video games, evolving in their own right, began to have a design influence on their parent genre.
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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Are there certain Fantasy or Sword & Sorcery movies that are most like the tone and mood of the "Dungeon Fantasy" background world?
The background is almost non-existent. This is deliberate, because the game concentrates on delving, and leaves out many things that a more general-purpose RPG would provide.

I think you need to turn this around. Pick a movie that has the kind of tone you'd like your demonstration game to show, and use that.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

I've alway thought that The Hobbit was a better example of a typical D&Dish dungeon-delving adventure than The Lord of The Rings. They go underground at least three times (goblin caves, the wood elves tunnels, and Lonely Mountain) and Mirkwood is functionally a dungeon as well. There are secret doors and puzzles. Bilbo starts out as a first level thief, if that, but gains experience and magic items through his adventures, and is considerably more capable by the end of the book.

The movies don't focus all that heavily on the dungeoneering aspects, but they are present.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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My understanding is that the dungeon fantasy genre in roleplaying games emerged from literature (e.g., the list in Appendix N of the original Dungeon Master's Guide). After D&D became popular, it then influenced the evolution of video games.
Sure, and that's why I didn't say the core influence of "role-playing games" was video games (especially considering TTRPG's predate CRPG's). I said "dungeon crawl games," specifically apart from all the various styles and genres of table-top RPG's we have today. Dungeons & Dragons is reason role-playing games even exist and Tolkien is probably the biggest influence on it; I even mentioned "Appendix N" in that post. I think it goes without saying that D&D is the original TTRPG.

Just like I think it's pretty safe to say the core influence of the down-and-town flavor of the hack-and-slash Dungeon Fantasy dungeon crawl is video games.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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However, there is no equivalent movie or TV series to do the same for dungeon crawl games because at their core, they are not inspired by cinema, but rather by video games.
What?

OD&D was not at all inspired by video games. DFRPG lifts very heavily from old D&D.

While you can make an argument that modern rpgs are 'inspired' by video games, you must realize the vicious circle of inspiration starts* with D&D, goes to Diablo, and then back to rpgs.



* Actually it starts with books, but I'm skipping that argument for this post.

[EDIT]
Argh. That's what I get for opening this thread a 2pm and then getting around to reading and responding after 5pm... but that leaves me now able to "AHA!"...
[/EDIT]

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Sure, and that's why I didn't say the core influence of "role-playing games" was video games (especially considering TTRPG's predate CRPG's). I said "dungeon crawl games," specifically apart from all the various styles and genres of table-top RPG's we have today. Dungeons & Dragons is reason role-playing games even exist and Tolkien is probably the biggest influence on it; I even mentioned "Appendix N" in that post. I think it goes without saying that D&D is the original TTRPG.

Just like I think it's pretty safe to say the core influence of the down-and-town flavor of the hack-and-slash Dungeon Fantasy dungeon crawl is video games.
My group ran games like that in 1986.

Nineteen-eighty six. And my group wasn't at all exceptional in this.

Now you could argue we were inspired by by Ultima and Rogue... btu we weren't. We didn't play those games. We didn't even know crpgs existed until 1990 (or at least I didn't, and I know our GM didn't). And the first one I remember was one of the old TSR crpgs (Pool of Radiance? Azure Bonds? Not sure, I want to say it was Silver Blades though).

No, we just played the modules and they were always set really conveniently close to our home city... or our travel to go to and fro was hand-waved. It's been a long time.

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Old 06-07-2018, 04:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

Yeah, while I believe Kromm has mentioned roguelike games as an influence on DF, they weren't really doing anything that the random dungeon creation tables in the DMG in 1st edition didn't do.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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Besides the anime I listed above, you mean?
Right, I was wondering about live-action specifically.

I think a move could focus entirely on professional delvers; no problem there.

And a TV show? The episode format is a challenge – but the difficulty of keeping a narrow premise fresh week after week has never stopped TV creators from trying (with greatly varying results).

Well, even if there's no focused Dungeon Fantasy live-action property out there, there are plenty of bits and pieces from TV and movies to inspire GMs. Which makes this a pretty useful thread.
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Old 06-07-2018, 05:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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My group ran games like that in 1986.

Nineteen-eighty six.
Like I said in my last post, I didn't feel the need to state the obvious (or act like me playing D&D in the 80's sets me above others). D&D chronologically predates CRPG's and is the progenitor of all RPG's. Again, I even mentioned "Appendix N" in my first post—which was on-topic and a reply to a quote from the OP as to why there may not be as good of a parallel to Dungeon Fantasy's flavor of dungeon crawl as there is to the wider sci-fi genre.

That's what this thread is about. Finding a movie/TV show that centers on Dungeon Fantasy's down-and-town style of dungeon crawl. I was saying that there may not be one so perfect as Star-Trek for a game about flying around in a spaceship discovering new worlds.

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Now you could argue we were inspired by
I wouldn't because I wasn't talking about Evileeyore's group playing D&D.

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Yeah, while I believe Kromm has mentioned roguelike games as an influence on DF, they weren't really doing anything that the random dungeon creation tables in the DMG in 1st edition didn't do.
He also specifically mentioned the Diablo franchise by name which should come as no surprise to those who've played it; DF1+2 are basically Diablo in pencil and paper. Like most other Roguelikes. I think he also has mentioned "Appendix A" and I believe even dropped this highly-addictive link: blogofholding.com/dungeonrobber/
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Mood or Tone of the 'Dungeon Fantasy' setting, world...

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And a TV show? The episode format is a challenge – but the difficulty of keeping a narrow premise fresh week after week has never stopped TV creators from trying (with greatly varying results).
.

Watch the D&D episodes of Community on repeat.
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