Zip-lining, bungee jumping, trolleys and harnesses

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

How does this skill interact with Knot-Tying, which starts to look awfully limited if it only includes, well, tying knots in old-fashioned rope?

It's more than that. There are Krommquotes about it in this thread.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by johndallman

It's more than that. There are Krommquotes about it in this thread.

The thing where it can be used as a complementary skill to a bunch of other skills is the only thing I see in there. No actual knot-tying tasks except making a lariat and tying a cord across a path. (And the latter should be trivial at default...)


...Also, I think Knot-tying as complementary skill in those cases makes no sense, actually. Well, except the very last example mentioned. The ropework for Climbing, Freight Handling, Seamanship, and (where applicable) Traps is part of the basic use of the skill. Without some specific thing that Knot-tying does to help that, the 'complementary skill' bonus looks like it's giving people a cookie for having spent character points rather than actually representing anything.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The thing where it can be used as a complementary skill to a bunch of other skills is the only thing I see in there. No actual knot-tying tasks except making a lariat and tying a cord across a path. (And the latter should be trivial at default...)

Being able to perform some trivial aspect of a skill faster and having a wider reportoire of tricks relating to it seem like precisely the things that justify a +1 bonus for a Complementary Skill.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Also, I think Knot-tying as complementary skill in those cases makes no sense, actually. Well, except the very last example mentioned. The ropework for Climbing, Freight Handling, Seamanship, and (where applicable) Traps is part of the basic use of the skill. Without some specific thing that Knot-tying does to help that, the 'complementary skill' bonus looks like it's giving people a cookie for having spent character points rather than actually representing anything.

Judging the reaction of others and adjusting to it is a part of the basic use of Influence skills, but I wouldn't object to using Psychology (Applied) as a Complementary Skill.

It seems to me that having a broader base of knowledge and experience is pretty much always helpful. I don't have any problem believing that the bosun's mate can get a +1 to his Climbing, Freight Handling and Seamanship for having a much wider reportoire of knots at his disposal than the carpenter's mate.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Being able to perform some trivial aspect of a skill faster and having a wider reportoire of tricks relating to it seem like precisely the things that justify a +1 bonus for a Complementary Skill.

I would say that having a separate skill set that does something outside of but helpful (even complementary) to the primary skill set is what justifies the +1 bonus for a complementary skill.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Judging the reaction of others and adjusting to it is a part of the basic use of Influence skills, but I wouldn't object to using Psychology (Applied) as a Complementary Skill.

It seems to me that having a broader base of knowledge and experience is pretty much always helpful. I don't have any problem believing that the bosun's mate can get a +1 to his Climbing, Freight Handling and Seamanship for having a much wider reportoire of knots at his disposal than the carpenter's mate.

I would have a problem with 'no matter how good I am at tying the knots for freight handling, as represented by mastery of that skill, this other guy always gets +1 for being good at knots and I don't'.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I would say that having a separate skill set that does something outside of but helpful (even complementary) to the primary skill set is what justifies the +1 bonus for a complementary skill.

Like having a wider repertoire of knots than a typical user of the skill.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I would have a problem with 'no matter how good I am at tying the knots for freight handling, as represented by mastery of that skill, this other guy always gets +1 for being good at knots and I don't'.

So? If you have skill 17 and he has skill 15, you still end up being better at it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Like having a wider repertoire of knots than a typical user of the skill.

Tying the knots appropriate to the skill falls within core usage. If those knots are useful, why aren't they included?

(In answer to your earlier thing about influence skills and Psychology (Applied), that skill doesn't cover adjusting to the reactions of others - it covers building and utilizing a model of their motives and personality. That's an add-on to bare Influence...)

Originally Posted by Icelander

So? If you have skill 17 and he has skill 15, you still end up being better at it.

The bonus and lack thereof has to mean something.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Tying the knots appropriate to the skill falls within core usage. If those knots are useful, why aren't they included?

Because most skills don't actually cover every single inter-disciplinary snippet of knowledge which might be useful.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The bonus and lack thereof has to mean something.

Yeah, deep expertise in Seamanship (skill 17) and consequent mastery of the most common knots used vs. a wider field of knowledge as relates to knots, which adds somewhat to capability, but is generally not as useful at tasks relating to the specific skill as the deep expertise (skill 15 with a +1 complementary bonus).