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Old 09-26-2021, 03:20 PM   #21
GnomesofZurich
 
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
It does? My copy still says 10 points/level.
Outdoorsman is still 10 points/level, but has been expanded to include Disguise (Animal) and Weather Sense, so it is closer to using the Smooth Talent Cost (9 skills for 10 points rather than 7 skills as in the Basic Set).
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Old 09-26-2021, 05:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

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Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich View Post
Outdoorsman is still 10 points/level, but has been expanded to include Disguise (Animal) and Weather Sense, so it is closer to using the Smooth Talent Cost (9 skills for 10 points rather than 7 skills as in the Basic Set).
Thanks, I will add that to a previous post.
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Old 09-26-2021, 05:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages, addendum

One thing I noticed when looking at things that would need to be changed in DF4 is that while there still aren't any templates with Cultural Familiarities or the Area Knowledge skill on them, these traits are specifically called out as things Scholars might acquire through Book-Learned Wisdom. This makes sense: they're highly situational, which makes them perhaps a better fit for a piece of gear than for a permanent use of character points.
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

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Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich View Post
Outdoorsman is still 10 points/level, but has been expanded to include Disguise (Animal) and Weather Sense, so it is closer to using the Smooth Talent Cost (9 skills for 10 points rather than 7 skills as in the Basic Set).
The Smooth Talent option is from GURPS Power-Ups 3 - Talents pg 14

Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians p. 21 addresses the issue with Outdoorsman:

"GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents offers an alternative cost for Outdoorsman: 7 points/level. Another option there is to add Weather Sense, which brings the alternative cost to 8 points/level."

Sea raiders can use Seafarer at 9/level.
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Old 09-28-2021, 03:46 AM   #25
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

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The Smooth Talent option is from GURPS Power-Ups 3 - Talents pg 14

Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians p. 21 addresses the issue with Outdoorsman:

"GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents offers an alternative cost for Outdoorsman: 7 points/level. Another option there is to add Weather Sense, which brings the alternative cost to 8 points/level."

Sea raiders can use Seafarer at 9/level.
I'm well aware. I was pointing out that the information from the GURPS Wiki about DFRPG using the Smooth Talent option isn't entirely accurate. Denizens suggested adding Weather Sense and bringing the cost to 8. DFRPG also added Disguise (Animals) and kept the cost at 10.
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

Monsters

I went and did a comprehensive review of the differences between the monsters in Dungeon Fantasy Monsters with those in GURPS Campaigns, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 1, and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 2: Icky Goo. I was honestly surprised how few changes there were, given what Kromm has previously said on the subject:

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"Most" would be accurate. Some changes were just in the bookkeeping (e.g., types of Injury Tolerance are now listed as distinct traits); others were radical overhauls (e.g., the elementals are inspired by the ones in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 9: Summoners but not easily derived from them, and are little like the elementals in GURPS Magic). The majority of changes fall somewhere in the middle.
In most cases, I would say the changes amount to an extra editing pass—adding useful explanatory notes to stat blocks (including consistently giving Reach), and fixing things that just seem like mistakes, like leaving No Neck off the Flaming Skull, putting Extra Legs on the Dragon (inadvertently implying dragons have six limbs), and giving Void Brutes Peripheral Vision rather than No Peripheral Vision.

Occasionally, there are small, non-obvious tweaks to monster stats. This happens to most of the creatures drawn from Campaigns, whose stat blocks were originally pretty sketchy in the first place. The Ice Wyrm gets its Reach reduced. The Karkadann is no longer soothed by music and correspondingly loses Connoisseur (Music). Trolls lose Independent Body Parts (Detachable Head) in favor of more text detailing how exactly its Regeneration and Regrowth works. But that's about it—the changes are far fewer than I expected.

Traits also disappear for apparently not being relevant to DFRPG much less often than I expected. The Eye of Death drops Hyperspectral Vision for an extra three levels of Acute Vision—reasonable enough, especially given that the Eye already has Dark Vision for seeing in the dark. The Giant Ape loses Shyness, and the Obsidian Jaguar loses Vacuum Support. But as far as I can tell that's it.

In many cases, Resistant (+3) and Resistant (+8) become Resistant 3 and Resistant 8. But Resistant to Metabolic Hazards (+3) sometimes becomes Resistant to Disease 5 plus Resistant to Poison 5—presumably with a few to keeping point cost constant, if a racial template for the monster were to be introduced. This happens with the Goblin-Kin and the Throttler, which have racial templates for PCs appear in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, but also interestingly the Void Brute, which doesn't.

Surveying all these changes, my feeling is that when porting over monsters from other sources, I'd feel free to make small changes but also, in the vast majority of cases, not worry too much about using them as-is. The one thing that probably really should be changed where it shows up is armor. In GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, the Sword Spirit has DR 2 leather armor—but in DFRPG, its DR drops to 1 without any explanation of where that comes from. I assume that's because using the weight from Low-Tech for DR 2 leather armor would have put the Sword Spirit at Light Encumbrance, so it was implicitly given lighter armor to keep it at No Encumbrance. Similar changes should probably be made to armor-using monsters from elsewhere—but armor is a unique in how much of a change it is between GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and DFRPG.
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Old 09-28-2021, 04:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

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Monsters

In most cases, I would say the changes amount to an extra editing pass—adding useful explanatory notes to stat blocks (including consistently giving Reach), and fixing things that just seem like mistakes, like leaving No Neck off the Flaming Skull, putting Extra Legs on the Dragon (inadvertently implying dragons have six limbs), and giving Void Brutes Peripheral Vision rather than No Peripheral Vision.
There are things that get pass the editor more than once.

As the GURPSwiki points out if you take an existing meta-trait and build it a different way some really gonzo things appear.

For example if you build Intact Undead from Horror with Zombie's Intact Corpse you find out that Horror's undead need to Eat, Drink, and Sleep. Then you realize Mummified Undead (Fantasy and Horror) can heal naturally.

Uh. Opps.
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Old 10-12-2021, 11:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS -> Dungeon Fantasy Conversion Thread

Gonna necromance this thread to raise the issue of items. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers uses Magic's distinction between quick and dirty enchantment ($1/FP) and slow and sure enchantment ($20/FP), and sets a simple cutoff that items requiring up to 100 FP to make use the former cost, and items requiring more FP to make use the latter cost. In GURPS Dungeon Fantasy this led to some odd results like Cornucopia Quivers costing only $110 ($100 for the enchantment, $10 for the mundane quiver). DFRPG doesn't explicitly lay out Magic's item-creation rules, but does seem to implicitly switch most permanent magic items to the $20/FP pricing. Wizard wand/staffs remain enchanted in price, as does one-shot enchanted ammunition.

Some other things, like alchemical charms, got repriced in ways I unfortunately haven't been able to reverse-engineer. Furthermore, in Dungeon Fantasy Magic Items and its sequel, things GURPS Dungeon Fantasy probably would have classed as artifacts which therefore have no "list price" now have a list price. But I strongly suspect there was no system at all used to derive them, though list prices tend to be extremely high, in the tends of thousands of GURPS $. If anyone has further insight into how to convert items that don't fall into Magic's primary magic item system I'd greatly appreciate hearing from them.
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