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Old 06-27-2018, 02:51 PM   #31
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

Limiting staffs to recharging would also give more reason for wizards to increase their actual ST - otherwise I'm predicting a lot of ST 8 wizards.

Of course, there are two or more clear/easy levels of limitation possible, depending on how quickly a wizard can draw ST from the staff (and/or whether it takes time/concentration to do so):

* The least restrictive would be to say staffs can restore spellcasting fatigue immediately, but don't let you cast a stronger spell than your ST allows. This will only affect high-ST spells such as missile spells and Open Tunnel and so on, and will allow wizards with a lot of staff mana to cast many more spells per combat than otherwise.

* More restrictive would be if it takes a combat turn or a minute or less to recover fatigue from a staff. If it took a turn, then it could be used in combat but with a delay to recover ST. If it took a minute, it'd tend to only be usable between combats (though it might lead to buying time tactics, such as casting spells, run through a door and bar it for a minute while the wizards recharge from staffs, then re-engage).

* Even more restrictive would be if it takes like a minute per point. Then you'd still be able to recharge your wizards between fights until their staffs ran out, but there wouldn't be any tactics that would let you do it in the context of most all single combat situations.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:19 PM   #32
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Default Pull mana from your staff with an action!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Limiting staffs to recharging would also give more reason for wizards to increase their actual ST - otherwise I'm predicting a lot of ST 8 wizards.
...
Hi Skarg, everyone.
How does this sound. It takes an ACTION to pull mana from your staff and fill up your spent fatigue!!!

The base amount is 1 fatigue ST gained per action, but perhaps talents can improve this. (Activate Staff iv (1), lets you recharge 4 extra fST per action for example.)

So some wizards would like to run into a room and lock the door, then spending action after action to pull mana from his staff (while the door is being smashed to bits by the screaming whatsit). Whereas a master wizard just pauses for a moment in combat, before she can power her spells.

Warm regards, Rick
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:43 PM   #33
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Pull mana from your staff with an action!

Sounds pretty good/fun/interesting to me, Rick.


(Side-topic: On the question of doing damage with staffs, I notice that the usual damage for hitting someone with a club is already about 1 die: (ST 8 or less: 1d-1, ST 9-10: 1d, ST 11-12: 1d+1, +1 for 2-handed "maul") FWIW.)

Last edited by Skarg; 06-27-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:30 PM   #34
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

A fairly standard tactic for us is that wizards have functioning weapons of wood, such as a spear or bow, *that are staves*!

So if someone runs up to a wiz and attacks, he'll have a double damage spear attack coming his way. If not, the wizard will close the gap and deal out double damage. He can cast a spell without worrying about his magical pole weapon.

Boomerangs can be used to do staff damage, and thrown when necessary. Same approach. Bows, etc. launching arrows, and at the ready to do staff damage.

So I do wonder how all of this talk of charging up staves won't make wizards even more lethal, and make heroes that use a spell or two, like a pole weapon user, the only reasonable type of character to create to optimize battle skills, while making non-spell casters second rate citizens.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:05 AM   #35
schoon
 
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Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

Yes - I'd also be OK with the Staff as Battery concept.

Perhaps one that takes an action to use.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:48 AM   #36
Oneiros
 
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Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

Hmm. I also really like idea of the staff as battery to recharge the wizard's ST, not just an additive pool with existing ST. However (some points re-iterating those previously mentioned):

I don't think ST lost to wounds should be restored by the staff*, so that means ST used for spell casting and wounds would have to be tracked separately (the fST notation used often here as "fatigue ST"). This does add a slight amount of bookkeeping, though a fST spot on a character sheet would be helpful.

It should take at minimum an action to draw ST from the staff. Though to achieve the goal Steve stated of allowing more encounters per day for the spellcaster in a TFT campaign without breaking Wizard/Melee, it should probably take longer, so restoring mana isn't an in-combat action.

I think the Staff spell should allow mana storing to be added via XP, otherwise the goal of giving the wizard a way to recup faster between encounters isn't even an option until they raise their IQ high enough to get Staff of Power (or the theoretical mid-way Wizard's Staff spell)

The amount of mana each Staff spell is capable of storing could be something like:

Staff: mana up to 1/2 IQ (round down)
Wizard's Staff: mana up to IQ
Staff of Power: mana up to 2 x IQ (though I'm tempted to cap at 1.5 x IQ)

*A wizard's staff that allows drawn ST to actually heal ST lost to wounds might be a new spell, or a feature of the proposed Heal spell - when added to a staff, it might allow healing at a lower ration for the wizard than when cast on another target.

Last edited by Oneiros; 06-28-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:09 AM   #37
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Pull mana from your staff with an action!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Skarg, everyone.
How does this sound. It takes an ACTION to pull mana from your staff and fill up your spent fatigue!!!

The base amount is 1 fatigue ST gained per action, but perhaps talents can improve this. (Activate Staff iv (1), lets you recharge 4 extra fST per action for example.)

So some wizards would like to run into a room and lock the door, then spending action after action to pull mana from his staff (while the door is being smashed to bits by the screaming whatsit). Whereas a master wizard just pauses for a moment in combat, before she can power her spells.

Warm regards, Rick
Yes! I think using actions to replenish ST is the simplest and best solution and it keeps the wizard's ST as the limitation on spell-size.

I still like the house rule that ST is just "used for mana", though, and that magic-fatigue doesn't make a wizard more susceptible to death or unconsciousness.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:33 PM   #38
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
I don't think ST lost to wounds should be restored by the staff*, so that means ST used for spell casting and wounds would have to be tracked separately (the fST notation used often here as "fatigue ST"). This does add a slight amount of bookkeeping, though a fST spot on a character sheet would be helpful.
The distinction between fatigue (aka "exhaustion" in AW, last page) is already established in the campaign rules (Advanced Wizard/Melee, & In the Labyrinth). The Physicker talent requires three types of damage to be tracked: fatigue/exhaustion (recovers with rest at 1 per 15 minutes), untreated injury that can be treated by a physicker, and injury that can't be treated by a physicker.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:17 PM   #39
Oneiros
 
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Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
The distinction between fatigue (aka "exhaustion" in AW, last page) is already established in the campaign rules (Advanced Wizard/Melee, & In the Labyrinth). The Physicker talent requires three types of damage to be tracked: fatigue/exhaustion (recovers with rest at 1 per 15 minutes), untreated injury that can be treated by a physicker, and injury that can't be treated by a physicker.
Ah, so that eliminates one of the cons I listed, and strengthens the argument for staves working as out-of-combat batteries, since there's no additional tracking necessary (other than the mana in the staff itself).

(It also makes a cases for better organization of the rules in the new books. The very last page, right after a lengthy section on magic items, makes the ST recovery rules easy to overlook.)
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:38 PM   #40
StuRat
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Staff, mana, stored ST

I intended to post much what Helborn suggested.

Staff would reduce ST casting cost by 1 (minimum of 1 ST) and two more versions that reduce by -2ST (Min 1ST) & -3ST (minimum or not?).

This has the virtue of being simple and requiring no separate tracking.

And it is incrementally useful. A lot of the lower IQ spells have a cost of 1ST so it won't help with those, but higher IQ spells often have higher ST costs so is more useful then. Especially the advanced versions. [Staff of Power-Staff of Might??]

The one issue we had back in the day was powerful wizards looking like, well The Rock (to use a current example); it just didn't jibe with the elderly/frail wizard stereotype.
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