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Old 07-30-2018, 12:40 PM   #61
KevinJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

Stop acting like TFT is only a simple minded solo death match game. The wizards you are all dreading can only exist after a couple of YEARS of game play, unless you are a Monty Haul GM or play with one.
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:21 PM   #62
Steve Jackson
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

That was pointlessly insulting, Kevin. Would you like to edit your post? Please moderate yourself, as it were, in the future.
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:13 PM   #63
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

I want to make it clear that I very much like the ideas in the new Staff spells. I do wonder about the power levels, which is why I created this thread.

I was hoping to create a discussion for examination, constructive criticism, and creative input but this thread is sounding kind of discouraging to me...
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:31 AM   #64
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Less complaining from people who don't like running out of ST as wizards (I don't sympathize with this much - seems to me fatigue is a very "fair" price to pay for the various magic powers.)
So there are three questions: is it fair, is it fun and is it TFT. I think wizards running out of ST is more than fair, and clearly it's very much part of TFT. It's fun enough in Wizard, or any duel situation, where if you run out you're dead anyway. But in ITL, where there might be half a dozen characters on each side, it's not really fun: you lose the ability to participate and have to spectate while others finish the battle, then the whole party has to announce they're resting for a while, it's just a bit dull. I'm not sure how this should work, but if someone thinks the penalty for spellcasting should be more interesting and has a better idea than "... and that's a roll on the excess magic table for Eloise ... who has transformed into a giant badger," then I'd listen.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:48 AM   #65
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

Thematically, something thing I really like about the new Staff spells is that the free attack makes it dangerous to get near a wizard.

One change I'd suggest is to make a free action attack cost ST.

It's kind of like a 1-point missile spell but it's also free, so maybe 2 ST? You could even argue for 3 ST because it ignores armor...

I'd keep it free to make a staff attack if it's your action.
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:58 AM   #66
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

The new rules make a wizard staff very powerful, but I also just realized that a wizard needs to spend experience points to improve the staff, so it does come with some downsides.

Maybe the staff is so powerful because play testing indicated that wizards need some help to survive once they have expended all their fatigue ST or something like that. A wizard left with only ST=4 is so likely to be taken down in a single blow, and only wizards are forced to sort of kill themselves in order to damage their enemies.

I'm curious how this all turns out, but there's always room for house rules if a GM so desires.
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Last edited by flankspeed; 08-01-2018 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

This is NOT intended as an attack on anyone's position or thoughts on this subject, but I have to say I don't find the argument "It won't be a problem for a year or more," very convincing.

The rules are still somewhat in flux right now, and I see no reason to not do what we can to prevent any future problems as well as immediate ones by making the case now. We have the opportunity to address this issue now -- once the rules are written, the only way to address it will be to change the rules. And lots of players don't like it much when you do that -- especially for something that will make their character nigh invincible in time.

Frankly, I think the new Staff rules WILL be a problem in the long game. And even in the short game if someone lets a powerful NPC Wizard villain show up. Given that Wizards, while fairly well balanced against Warriors in the early game, steadily outstrip them in combat value as the game goes on, giving them a virtual "atom bomb" in the form of the advanced Staff rules seems to me to be wildly unbalancing.
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Old 08-01-2018, 05:02 PM   #68
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

<Moderator>
Just a reminder that posts consisting of Me Too! or +1 type content that adds nothing to the conversation are considered to be garbage posts, and as such not appropriate for the SJGames forums.

Thank you.
</Moderator>
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:00 PM   #69
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

I agree that these staff rules eliminate the need for fighters. I find the amount of occult damage in the higher staves excessive. I see them taking lots of XP meaning lots of play before they get to those levels but I believe they will completely unbalance play once those levels are achieved. Wizards have always been limited - which is why they NEEDED the fighters. These staff rules eliminate that need. All you need is one high level wizard and few almost as high level assistants and no fighter can survive in opposition. One Reverse Missiles and the main wizard advances to lay waste to all opponents while his supporters keep him protected.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:28 AM   #70
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Default Re: Reactions to the new staff spells

The exploding staff was a concern of mine too. What does it mean by against the owner’s will?
Does it mean that he has his attention on it 4 hexes away and an enemy picks it up?
What if he doesn’t have his attention on it because it is behind him and enemy picks it up?
Does it mean that if he has his attention on it 4 hexes away and he feels its OK if the enemy picks it up it won’t blow up?
So I agree with Guy’s reasoning in Entry #12.

However, I bet the Wizard Guild has a huge chest of money for legal fees paying out indemnity to those poor civilians minding their own business and coming upon these land mines. “My kind little Bertie saw Wizard Jones leave his staff in the store, so being a good little boy, he was going to get it for him and BOOOM. Why do they let these wizards loose in this city? (sob)”

Also, I bet some wizards won’t want their staffs to blow up at anytime. Wizard Sam has a staff that has 4 other spells imbedded into it. No one else can use the staff’s magic but him. However, if it blows up, he is out a very powerful item.

Also, if the wizard dies, I assume that his will no longer matters and the staff is a piece of wood now?

I think that the wizard needs to tell the GM what the Wizard's Will Standard Operating Procedure is at creation and then if the wizard wants to deviate from that for a day or two, he informs the GM.

==================

The rule states
“Regardless of what the staff looks like – rod, wand, quarterstaff, etc. – it is an occult weapon which does one die of damage (adjacent hex only) when the wizard points with it.”

So how about….
a staff that is a crutch?
A long toboco pipe?
an actual wooden spear (with silver blade painted over to look like steel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
I want to encourage the Dr. Strange, empty-handed sorceror instead of forcing everyone to be Harry Potter or Gandalf.
How about a toothpick staff that can be slipped through a ring. Dr. Strange can now be a seemingly empty-handed sorcerer.

And since “the staff does not even have to touch in order to deliver its flare of magical energy” you don’t even need to make contact with that toothpick.
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Last edited by JohnPaulB; 08-05-2018 at 12:37 AM. Reason: include question about dead wizard
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