Points value of "regular" people?

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I thought it was more that unless your career or hobby requires Writing, the Skill you have built up will simply stagnate until you're back to default level and any points you spent in it are effectively lost.

From what I've seen of high schoolers and recent graduates here in the United States, unless they took a particular interest in writing, they're barely able to put two sentences together. I would be give them their IQ-5 default, which will allow them to do things like fill out a job application.

[Tiggurix]

Originally Posted by Otaku

1) TL is a factor of setting; perhaps the typical guidelines should be viewed as applying to specific TLs e.g. a 0 point TL 0 character's higher tech equivalent might be five points at TL 1, 10 at TL 2, etc.

I don't think this particular stance holds water at all. In fact, I think the opposite would be true. As mentioned, I believe that the harsher and more unforgiving the setting is, the more hardened and experienced the "average" person would be, as the "weak", frail, stupid and reckless are weeded out by natural and societal dangers, in a sort of "survival of the fittest" at the personal level. Of course the community would try to be as supportive toward an individual as possible (or not, depending on the community), but if they don't have the technology in place to help those who can't help themselves, then people with low degrees of Health, people with Bad Temper, or just a lack of tact, or without an ability to talk themselves out of a blunder, in a society where personal slights can be responded with lethal force, or people who have a tendency for foolhardiness in the face of danger, are likely going to perish, and everyone around them likely having learned what not to do in the face of adversity.

2) I would like to see some worked out examples to support your argument, because on their surface, I find them pretty weak.

Take for instance a woman in her twenties. If she was born at the same time as I, around the beginning of the 90's, she would likely have gone through a lengthy schooling system, private or public, where she may, or may not, have learned valuable skills and knowledge. Also, during her upbringing, her body has developed up until its mature form, and revealed her natural talents, so to speak, and she has learned the basic skill of her society, as well as skills from her parents and relatives and friends, in addition to the skills and hobbies that she has pursued on her own. This would give anything from a woman with 25 points of some skills, plus -50 or so disadvantages and the standard -5 quirks, which would be enough to buy a set of skills, and maybe a couple of Attributes, and a couple of advantages, to a "heroic" level woman, such as the recently graduated apprentices in the 3rd edition GURPS Wizards supplement, which would be a woman with natural talents and a will to excel, with, with several Attributes, a good set of skills, and some advantages.

From there, it depends on how hard she decides to pursue the acquisition of new skills, but I imagine, as you mentioned, a focus on job skills and hobbies, plus social skills, perhaps oudoors skills, or perhaps a second set of job skills, if she decides to pursue a new career. Perhaps she would pick up some social advantages, and if she has kids, she would probably receive a set of skills around the raising of children. But really, it depends on how active she decides to be about "expanding" her horizons, so to speak, but I don't think anyone stops learning new things and acquring new skills, unless they become senile, as mentioned.

At best I could see that "average 70 year old human" having a decent skill set and quite a few social Advantages. I think you might be failing to draw a distinction in that competent tends to be "above average", even if only a little. Simply put, a "normal" person is performing in a relatively "average" fashion, which includes sometimes doing really stupid things and sometimes doing really smart things. Most don't spend meaningful amounts of time studying anything; they get to count hours spent doing a job and/or participating in a hobby as study towards the relevant skill(s), but the better they get at it the less that counts and the more is needed for maintaining that high skill.

And wouldn't a decent skill set and Social Advantages be more than enough to fill out a 100 points character? As for the decreasing gains of professional skill levels, I believe you're right about that, but, as for the people of all ages I've known, they don't really ever stop pursuing hobbies and different, more or less random, but sometimes useful, skill sets throughout their life, such as all the relatively old men I know that are dead set on modifying their own houses, or people who continue to pursue skills such as hunting, hiking, and competitive swimming, or young women who pursue knitting, in addition to studying at university levels, or just people who want to learn how to drive a car well.

[Tiggurix]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I don't think "ordinary" people have point values nearly as clearly defined as you seem to. I reckon they're all over the place in the range 0 to 100 or so 4e points, with outliers above and below that range.

Actually that's exactly what I hold by, just that I try to rationalise a "mean" to stand by as a rule-of-thumb. Of course the mean is going to be different from setting to setting, and from society to society, and from tech level to tech level. That's the specifics that I'm trying to discuss.

[Tiggurix]

Also, I realise that I will have to generate some sample characters to support my argument, and I will do this. I just won't do it right now, because I don't have the energy. I'll come back soon with some examples.

[SCAR]

You might also want to review this post (and perhaps the rest of the thread) from the GURPS Line Editor Sean Punch (aka Kromm).

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Tiggurix

Actually that's exactly what I hold by, just that I try to rationalise a "mean" to stand by as a rule-of-thumb. Of course the mean is going to be different from setting to setting, and from society to society, and from tech level to tech level. That's the specifics that I'm trying to discuss.

Well, I'm thinking about a medium-sized group of people that I know: the 200 staff in the office where I work. They're almost all in the age range 25 to 55, they all have college education in maths or science, and they all do definitely related jobs. But the only thing I'd feel confident in generalising about them in GURPS terms is that they have IQ11 or better. Their wealth levels, social advantages and disadvantages, physical attributes, and skills outside their jobs are wildly variable, and therefore so are their point totals.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I don't think "ordinary" people have point values nearly as clearly defined as you seem to. I reckon they're all over the place in the range 0 to 100 or so 4e points, with outliers above and below that range.

Agreed. And this is made worse by the fuzzy definition of "regular person." Clearly, a werewolf is not a regular person, because he's supernatural. But what about Vladimir Putin? He's not supernatural, and I'd hazard a guess that his wealth and power and extensive allies (plus his amazing, bear-riding skills and epic kung fu) would put him in the several hundred point range. But is he normal? No? What about a highly skilled professional athlete? Or someone in special ops? How about a veteran officer, or an expert detective? Okay, what about a very proficient student?

People seem to have a specific idea of "regular," probably meaning "Like I am," but people who aren't very far off on the edges of the bell curve can be pretty extraordinary. Wealth, talent, skill, motivation and health can all vary pretty considerably. So yeah, I think "regular person" has more than enough room to contain the crippled little girl at school as well as the financially successful mercenary who has seen some action in foreign theaters before coming home to settle with his immigrant wife.

[Crzyraccoon]

I always saw this with regular peoples' points value like this.

Below 0 points: Very physically or mentally crippled people, Retarded, Toddlers

0 to 25 points: Children around the age of 4 to 9, physically or mentally crippled people, dumb.

25 to 40 points: Minors at the age of 10 to 15, Meek.

40 to 70 points: 16 to early adulthood, inexperienced adults.

70 to 100 points: Mid to late adulthood, Experienced adults, talented and/or skilled, Above-average intellegent, Strong physical capabilities.

100 to 200: Badass normals, Very talented and/or skilled that can get them a great career, Genius.

Do note that a regular person is what common in a given society or world, not how much points they worth, non regular people may not just have high points but very low points, What comes to mind is Beavis and Butthead, they could easily be worth -100 points.

Also in my examples, they are just what to expect from the average person in today's TL8 world at those points, and not set in stone for character building even for the same world. You could play a toddler with IQ or a crippled man with loads of skills.

The advantage that possible to gain thats worth alot a points is wealth, Bill Gates would have of this post, would have Multimillionare 4 which is worth 150 points.

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

If they have a single child, then that's -30 points if they have a frequency of appearance 9, or -60 points if they appear on a 12. They might also have a spouse or parents as well. A mother who just gave birth to twins might well have -90 points of Dependents.

Only if the spouse and children are regularly kidnapped, held hostage, get life threatening illnesses where you have to track down a specialist, long lost relative for a transplant etc. If they get in trouble with the police a lot that might make them the lowest level of Frequency of Appearance so half value. Frequency of Appearance isn't how often you see them but how often they cause a serious problem. Allowances and arguments over diet and bedtime don't count.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by dcarson

Only if the spouse and children are regularly kidnapped, held hostage, get life threatening illnesses where you have to track down a specialist, long lost relative for a transplant etc.

Nothing in the text of the disadvantage implies that. Quite the opposite.

'A “Dependent” is an NPC for whom you are responsible; e.g., your child, kid brother, or spouse.'

'Choose a frequency of appearance, as explained under Frequency of Appearance (p. 36). This should fit the “story” behind the Dependent. If the Dependent were your infant child, for instance, it would be odd for him to appear “quite rarely”!'