Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Munchkin > Other Munchkin Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2009, 12:25 PM   #21
Progmode
 
Progmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, Mi
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinA
I suspect that once we get the 6-player expansion, the dynamics made possible with these house rules will become even more interesting. And, IMO, necessary: When it takes 45-75 minutes to get to the fourth player's first turn in a four-player game, I can only imagine it would take 90-120 minutes to get to the sixth player's first turn in a six-player game. And that would be outrageous.

And we 100% endorse Quaff_fu's suggestion of calling the prime player the Quest Master.
Interesting stuff.

I do have to say though, 45-75 minutes to get to the fourth player's first turn? Either you haven't given yourselves enough time to learn the game well enough, or your group is prone to Analysis Paralysis. My regular group can now finish a four player game in under two hours.
__________________
"Someone is, or is thinking about, talking to someone else about possibly doing something sometime in the future." - MunchkinMan
Progmode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2009, 01:52 PM   #22
JustinA
 
JustinA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progmode
I do have to say though, 45-75 minutes to get to the fourth player's first turn? Either you haven't given yourselves enough time to learn the game well enough, or your group is prone to Analysis Paralysis. My regular group can now finish a four player game in under two hours.
Our experience is not that dissimilar. After we familiarized ourselves with the rules, our games typically lasted 2-3 hours (both before and after the house rules). In our experience, the unmodified game only lasts 2-4 turns.

That shortened gameplay (compared to Munchkin) is one of the reasons we've found the house rules so essential.
__________________
Dream Machine Productions
RPG Supplements, Cthulhu Audio Books, and More!
JustinA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2009, 04:14 PM   #23
Progmode
 
Progmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, Mi
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinA
Our experience is not that dissimilar. After we familiarized ourselves with the rules, our games typically lasted 2-3 hours (both before and after the house rules). In our experience, the unmodified game only lasts 2-4 turns.

That shortened gameplay (compared to Munchkin) is one of the reasons we've found the house rules so essential.
Sorry, now I'm a bit confused. I guess your comment about increasing the pace of the game implied that it was shortened by your house rules. Instead, the house rules had no effect on length, but instead gave players less to do more often? In other words, your rules give each player more, shortened turns than the house rules, but still the same number of actions over the course of the game?
__________________
"Someone is, or is thinking about, talking to someone else about possibly doing something sometime in the future." - MunchkinMan
Progmode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 03:54 PM   #24
JustinA
 
JustinA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progmode
Sorry, now I'm a bit confused. I guess your comment about increasing the pace of the game implied that it was shortened by your house rules. Instead, the house rules had no effect on length, but instead gave players less to do more often? In other words, your rules give each player more, shortened turns than the house rules, but still the same number of actions over the course of the game?
Yup. The length stays the same, but the pace increases. Basically, the same amount of stuff needs to happen in order for someone to reach level 10. But instead of taking 3 long turns over 150 minutes, each player is instead taking an average of 10 shorter turns over 150 minutes.

So instead of waiting 50 minutes before your next turn you're waiting about 15 minutes.

Makes a huge difference.
__________________
Dream Machine Productions
RPG Supplements, Cthulhu Audio Books, and More!
JustinA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 05:47 PM   #25
O'Keefe
 
O'Keefe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

These are some really interesting ideas, and making house rules is what Munchkin is all about, but I'm confused about one thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinA
And part of the reason it took so long is because everyone in the game was very active out-of-turn -- lot of monster buffing, negotiating, trading, etc.
Are you saying that it's a bad thing for a game to still be engaging even when it's not your turn?
__________________
Will Schoonover
Assistant Developer...among other things
Steve Jackson Games
will@sjgames.com
O'Keefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 10:32 AM   #26
Phazon Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

I am loving JustinA's input here, and his ideas will definitely be tested with my regular, fast-paced gaming group (half of whom hate MQ because of how long it takes to take your turn) tomorrow, with results posted here afterwards.
__________________
Newbie MIB! MIB #4256!
Phazon Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 12:10 PM   #27
Quaff_fu
 
Quaff_fu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Green Bay, Wismunchkin
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

'The Game is too long', has gone on to long. Itís all a matter of perspective. When I player D&D we measured game time by months not hours. When I played Hero Quest (by Milton Bradley) board game, once we completed one quest there was always another one to start on. So Iím use to putting a game on pause for one night and stating it back up another. As long as itís fun IĎll keep coming back for more.

Pat
__________________
"In this life now you kill your you die, or you die and you kill. " - The Governor.

Last edited by Quaff_fu; 01-28-2009 at 12:38 PM.
Quaff_fu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 09:49 PM   #28
Phazon Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaff_fu
'The Game is too long', has gone on to long. Itís all a matter of perspective.
Agreed.

It's also good that of all the flaws that the game could have possibly had, an easily fixable one seems to be prevalent among complaints. The game feels like it takes forever, but this can be easily remedied.

Hell, the game could have been made of tiny natives with even tinier poison darts, and the object of the game could have been to prevent excessive property damage by using your body to protect the walls from the darts. Or something else that entirely devalues the gameplay experience.

I seriously can't wait to see if the house rules work on my friends.
__________________
Newbie MIB! MIB #4256!
Phazon Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 03:06 AM   #29
JustinA
 
JustinA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaff_fu
'The Game is too long', has gone on to long. Itís all a matter of perspective. When I player D&D we measured game time by months not hours. When I played Hero Quest (by Milton Bradley) board game, once we completed one quest there was always another one to start on. So Iím use to putting a game on pause for one night and stating it back up another. As long as itís fun IĎll keep coming back for more.
I agree. There's nothing inherently wrong with a game that lasts 2-4 hours. There are lots of games that last 2-4 hours.

However, there is a problem with any game that feels "too long". In the case of Munchkin Quest, I think the reason so many people are complaining about it being "too long" is because the length between turns is too long.

There's nothing wrong with out-of-turn actions, but there's not enough of them to keep players engaged for the better part of an hour. And when you're using the RAW, your resources get pretty thoroughly tapped out before your next turn rolls around. (Even with the out-of-turn options for replenishing your supply.)

Easy fix, though.
__________________
Dream Machine Productions
RPG Supplements, Cthulhu Audio Books, and More!
JustinA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 04:28 AM   #30
Phazon Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
Default Re: Too Long Between Turns

The 2-move thing worked great! Felt much more fast-paced, while still allowing you to perform multiple actions during your turn.
__________________
Newbie MIB! MIB #4256!
Phazon Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.