[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#36): Digital Mind

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

A backup is a spirit form.

No it isn't. It isn't conscious and doesn't get to ghost around and spy on people.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

No it isn't. It isn't conscious and doesn't get to ghost around and spy on people.

Unkillable 3 doesn't give you that ability.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unkillable 3 doesn't give you that ability.

If it doesn't then what is the point? It says that you are a spirit and conscious; you get to move around to where you want to reform (which means you get to see what is around you). An unconscious backup doesn't do that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If it doesn't then what is the point? It says that you are a spirit and conscious; you get to move around to where you want to reform (which means you get to see what is around you).

"At this stage, you fall unconscious and heal normally. Once you are at full HP, your fully intact body will coalesce in a location of the GM’s choosing." (emphasis mine)

The point of unkillable 3 is that someone with unkillable 2 can suffer from having their dead body in a location where it can't actually recover (in a volcano, underwater if no water breathing, etc), or have their dead body collected by enemies. Unkillable 3 is immune to that.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

"At this stage, you fall unconscious and heal normally. Once you are at full HP, your fully intact body will coalesce in a location of the GM’s choosing." (emphasis mine)

The point of unkillable 3 is that someone with unkillable 2 can suffer from having their dead body in a location where it can't actually recover (in a volcano, underwater if no water breathing, etc), or have their dead body collected by enemies. Unkillable 3 is immune to that.

Huh, for some reason I remembered it as WOW-esque.

Edit: It still isn't that, because if your current instance is destroyed and you don't have any external backups then you aren't coming back. So if the advantage of Unkillable 3 is coming back if your body is in a volcano or something, then definitely shouldn't pay for this.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's more a problem that the Digital Mind advantage, as written, seems mostly redundant with Extra Lives/Unkillable and Possession (Digital); if it includes anything like either of those effects it's underpriced, and if it doesn't it's not clear what's left.

Powers helps make this more clear and it does not include those abilities. It is more like Trained by A master or something in that it has a few features (Telepathy vs. hacking) and serves as a way to buy additional abilities.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Powers helps make this more clear and it does not include those abilities. It is more like Trained by A master or something in that it has a few features (Telepathy vs. hacking) and serves as a way to buy additional abilities.

The telepathy issue is just a classes of mind thing, just like how spirits are vulnerable to spirit-affecting powers and immune to powers that affect human minds. Being hackable appears to be an inherent property of Reprogrammable. Acting as a way to buy additional abilities, assuming those abilities are not exclusive to the advantage, is Unusual Background.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Refplace place, thanks. I did not like Fourth Edition at first; what finally sold me on it was seeing how it meant GURPS was moving closer to its name; a generic, universal, role-playing system. So yes, that is important to me; not sure why it isn't more important to most (if not all) other GURPS players... but I can accept that it isn't.

Yes, I am really grateful for the move away from individual priced by fiat abilities towards building blocks.
Unfortunately we have a few left from the old days.

Originally Posted by Otaku

What does seem like an impasse is the limits on discussion. I had to mention it earlier, but the BAotW threads are for discussing traits, and helping people understand them. If people are free to praise a trait, but not to question or criticize it, that praise is meaningless. It is difficult to even ask questions if you have to worry your phrasing isn't sufficiently polite enough.

I agree. These threads are useful if they explain an ability and people talk about it and it encourages ideas, variations and how to use or not use them.
In some cases we evn get errata and clarification out of these types of threads.

Originally Posted by Otaku

We got into a discussion about why Digital Mind was written up a certain way and where it came from after I did my initial introduction post. I admitted to being confused by the trait, but that was simply to be honest, as well as provide context for any mistakes it may have led to (as I need others to help me correct those). I didn't start worrying about the history of Digital Mind until it was suggested as the reason for my lack of understanding it.

And that is part of the value of the thread. I am pretty confident you are not the only one who did not make the connection. A simple statement of "It is basically a holdover from prior work, treat as a UB with a few features." adds value to this thread. Where I think any disconnect came from is some people arguing about why is it that way and why not change it and others saying, its there and we cant change it without going to House rule territory.

At that point its talking in circles since we ant change the past, nor are we going to get an errata out of this.
However....
Ideas put forth like Bruno did about her mind trait are useful for those wanting something different.
Its a "fix" rather than just a complaint,, if you will.

Also talk about what does Digital Mind do is useful as apparently not everyone agrees on what it does, I thought it was pretty clear but most people think that about their own point of view.
Some of this discussion is similar to Enhanced Time Sense and Altered Time rate where people want to add more to it based on the name or description.

Originally Posted by Otaku

Someone brought it to my attention that GURPS Transhuman Space has been a bit contentious itself.

It is too bad TSH came out when it did.
I really feel the setting suffered from that Edition change as people are less likely to go back and get material from older editions.
I do not know if the setting would have fared better had it been released later, much less if it would have been a huge success.
But I really think that timing hurt it.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The telepathy issue is just a classes of mind thing, just like how spirits are vulnerable to spirit-affecting powers and immune to powers that affect human minds. Being hackable appears to be an inherent property of Reprogrammable. Acting as a way to buy additional abilities, assuming those abilities are not exclusive to the advantage, is Unusual Background.

Agreed. That is mostly what this is.
A nice UB that allows the purchase of advantages others cant get and a few nebulous but minor features, mostly traded out.
But if you want significant abilities like multiple copies (Duplication), backups (Extra life or Unkillable), faster processing speed (Enhanced time Sense), etc you pay for them.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The issue is that much of the 'being software' things are represented by other stuff, and it's not clear what package is guaranteed in exchange for [5], other than swapping telepathy susceptibility for hacking susceptibility. The trait description outright mentions someone with biobrain/biocomputer having Digital Mind, which seems to be the most 'rudimentary' form of DM, in the sense of having the smallest set of goodies (no Possession, no Compartmentalized Mind etc.). That still offers some benefits . . . and drawbacks.

But aside from the Indogenes in Defiance, I'm not sure I can find more examples of the latter form of Digital Mind.

Westworld (the modern HBO series)