Different forms of the Claws advantage on one creature?

[Cowrie]

The text of the Claws advantage says that the cost remains the same even if not all applicable limbs have the claws. With that in mind, what if one set of limbs has one form of the advantage, and other limbs have a different form of the advantage? Do you have to pay for both, or only the most expensive version? Does it depend on which forms of the advantage they are? I.E., Long Talons on your feet and regular Talons on your hands "overlap" in effect, so you might only have to pay for Long Talons, while if you have Sharp Claws on your hands and Hooves on your feet, there isn't an "overlap", so maybe you should pay for both.

[Maz]

I would just require you to pay for the most expensive.

If the lesser version offered some form of alternative you could price it as an Alternate Ability at 1/5 the cost. But when it comes to claws Long Talons is just plain better than all the previous ones and so you shouldn't have to pay for them.

[Cowrie]

Point taken on the Long Talons example, but the question of what to do when the different versions have completely different effects still stands. The problem with using alternate abilities for the example of Sharp Claws + Hooves is that it precludes the possibility of using both limbs together All-Out Attack (Double) or the Dual-Weapon Attack technique. To me, that's a big issue.

[Bruno]

When you have a redundant copy of an ability, the second and subsequent copies are bought at 1/5th the price to represent the reduction in utility - if one gets crippled you have backups, which is why you pay for it. These are available at the same time, there just usually isn't that much point.

Alternately, After The End mutants can get variable claws that range from completely retracted, through Sharp to Long Talons; they're purchased as Long Talons with Switchable and +50% cosmic.

I'd go with "buy the cheaper at 1/5th cost" myself: it's not an Alternate Ability, it's just that it isn't as useful to have hooves and claws as adding the points together, in my opinion.

[Cowrie]

Originally Posted by Bruno

When you have a redundant copy of an ability, the second and subsequent copies are bought at 1/5th the price to represent the reduction in utility - if one gets crippled you have backups, which is why you pay for it. These are available at the same time, there just usually isn't that much point.

Alternately, After The End mutants can get variable claws that range from completely retracted, through Sharp to Long Talons; they're purchased as Long Talons with Switchable and +50% cosmic.

I'd go with "buy the cheaper at 1/5th cost" myself: it's not an Alternate Ability, it's just that it isn't as useful to have hooves and claws as adding the points together, in my opinion.

I'm almost certainly going to go with this form of x1/5 cost, but out of curiosity, do you have a source for redundant copies of an ability costing 1/5 as much? A page number or forum post from Kromm or something? I believe you, I just want to know where the rule's from.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Cowrie

I'm almost certainly going to go with this form of x1/5 cost, but out of curiosity, do you have a source for redundant copies of an ability costing 1/5 as much? A page number or forum post from Kromm or something? I believe you, I just want to know where the rule's from.

Either Powers or Supers, one or the other.

[Cowrie]

Found it! In case anyone else wants to know, it's in the box on Powers p. 12. That's going by the numbers in the bottom corner of the pages of the pdf itself, the number given by my pdf-reader is 14.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Cowrie

Point taken on the Long Talons example, but the question of what to do when the different versions have completely different effects still stands. The problem with using alternate abilities for the example of Sharp Claws + Hooves is that it precludes the possibility of using both limbs together All-Out Attack (Double) or the Dual-Weapon Attack technique. To me, that's a big issue.

When an AA is bought as an attack power or ability it's an Alternate Attack (not Ability). These do no require 1 round to Ready to switch between them, they are 'instantaneous'.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Cowrie

The text of the Claws advantage says that the cost remains the same even if not all applicable limbs have the claws. With that in mind, what if one set of limbs has one form of the advantage, and other limbs have a different form of the advantage? Do you have to pay for both, or only the most expensive version? Does it depend on which forms of the advantage they are? I.E., Long Talons on your feet and regular Talons on your hands "overlap" in effect, so you might only have to pay for Long Talons, while if you have Sharp Claws on your hands and Hooves on your feet, there isn't an "overlap", so maybe you should pay for both.

This is a little like the Aslan in Traveller, but how about grasping claws with an extra claw in each paw for striking.

There is precedent for grasping claws. Raptors have them of course and Ospreys take that further because they specialize in fish (they have a reversible outer toe).

[RyanW]

If you assume full overlap renders the question moot (with Long Talons you can take any other for free), the only ones that ever make any sense to be an Alternate Ability are Blunt Claws and Hooves*. Since both of those are less than 5 points, you could just treat any mix of "either improved damage type or +1 damage" as just the most expensive plus a perk.

* Though Hooves includes foot DR, so it should maybe always be at least a perk, even with Long Talons.