Stacking after ramming in OGRE

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

In the Computer game, these are mutually exclusive. You would not see Ramming + stacking; you would see an overrun. The rules aren't that granular. You get "Basic" Ramming + no stacking, or you get "Advanced" Overrun + stacking. There's no way to have any other combination.

Good to know they're a package deal over there. I've still yet to pick it up...got so much in the air right now that it's a "take a number, wait in line" situation.

[dsdhornet]

Originally Posted by dwalend

On the board game you can decide at the beginning to use the overrun rules. Without "stacking friendlies" the outcome is statistically similar to ramming for most cases. Plus overruns are fun.

I'm not totally sure that stacking limit of 1/hex + overrun is an officially endorsed variant.

From Section 8:

Players should decide in advance whether they
will use the (fast, simple) Ramming rules in Section 6, or the (more
realistic and complex) Overrun Combat rules described here. Do not
use both!

However, section 8.06 says:

8.06 Movement and stacking before overruns. Since an
overrun takes place during a movement phase, more than five units
may participate in an overrun attack. However, the stacking limit of
5 units must be observed at the end of the movement phase, even
if the attacker must remove units to comply.

There is no mention to this rule only applying when allowing more than 1 unit per hex, which (to me) implies that Overruns are intended for games where stacking is allowed. I've always read the choice as 1/hex + ramming or 5/hex + overruns.

[TheAmishStig]

I don't know of anywhere that it's explicitly "If you X, you must Y" [and I could be wrong there, it's late and I just skimmed quick to double-check], but it's pretty solidly implicit. 5.02.1 also says "Be sure to use [overruns if you use stacking on the Orange map]"

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by dsdhornet

There is no mention to this rule only applying when allowing more than 1 unit per hex, which (to me) implies that Overruns are intended for games where stacking is allowed. I've always read the choice as 1/hex + ramming or 5/hex + overruns.

You are correct. Historically, 1/hex + ramming came from Ogre and 5/hex + overruns came from G.E.V.; they didn't mix and match. When the rules were consolidated, this became "basic" and "advanced" rules in the Steam version.

The current rules have some grey area verbiage that allow you to float a bit.

5.02 says you can change or ignore stacking limits if everyone agrees
5.02.1 basically states you must not stack if playing Ogre scenarios, but also says if you want to stack anyway, also use spillover rules.

The expectation is heavily stated that the only options are 1/hex + ramming or 5/hex + overruns, and that's what the Steam version does; but if you feel like it, you can fiddle with it on a physical board.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

You are correct. Historically, 1/hex + ramming came from Ogre and 5/hex + overruns came from G.E.V.; they didn't mix and match. When the rules were consolidated, this became "basic" and "advanced" rules in the Steam version.

The current rules have some grey area verbiage that allow you to float a bit.

5.02 says you can change or ignore stacking limits if everyone agrees
5.02.1 basically states you must not stack if playing Ogre scenarios, but also says if you want to stack anyway, also use spillover rules.

The expectation is heavily stated that the only options are 1/hex + ramming or 5/hex + overruns, and that's what the Steam version does; but if you feel like it, you can fiddle with it on a physical board.

Thank you. That's what my sleep-deprived brain was trying to say last night. "There's no explicit rule against it, but those pairs are designed to be used together, because history".

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by dsdhornet

I'm not totally sure that stacking limit of 1/hex + overrun is an officially endorsed variant.

There is no mention to this rule only applying when allowing more than 1 unit per hex, which (to me) implies that Overruns are intended for games where stacking is allowed. I've always read the choice as 1/hex + ramming or 5/hex + overruns.

That's correct. I use it to teach kids how to play. They pretty much get Ogre after watching a game or driving the MkIII.

GEV is a big leap for them, but "let's do this cool thing instead of just ramming" is a fun step toward it. It's less certain for the ogre, the defender isn't quite so passive, and INF suddenly become interesting even if they live a shorter life.

They've already learned force concentration from Ogre, so stacking and spill-over is the next step. This tilts the game a little toward the defender in Smash the CP, but that's fine if the kid is defending. The spill-over is an eye-opener - a caution about stacking.

After that I'll usually play capture the flag with armor and INF on the tan map, but full GEV rules otherwise.

Finally I introduce terrain after that.