Fixed Magic question

[maximara]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

A wizard that is only considered a wizard while singing? (use mage only items, be effect bay "only against wizard abilities"), only can detect changes in the mana level while singing? on detech enchantments while singing?

What is a Magery zero song mage? basically the reason Magery zero is so hard to limit, is most of it function are you are or you aren't abilities.

Right, Magery zero with limitations has "fine shadings [that] can get tricky. Mages who have limitations on all of their Magery, including Magery 0, cannot cast spells, detect items, or use mage-only items when their limitations apply; they’re effectively non-mages some of the time." (GURPS Thaumatology 21)

Having your mage break into song every time he want to use the innate abilities of Magery has issues ... especially if he can't carry a tune :-)

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Quirk: Casts Spells By Singing Them.

Actually, checking Thaumatology p21, that's basically the effect of applying the Song limitation to the casting only portion of Magery 0.

Basic states that Limitations on Magery 1+ prevent spellcasting entirely ("You can only use your power...", "You must...in order to cast spells."). Thaumatology "corrects" this.

[Plane]

Ah, it's half value if it only applies to casting and not to sensing, simple enough.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Actually, checking Thaumatology p21, that's basically the effect of applying the Song limitation to the casting only portion of Magery 0.

Basic states that Limitations on Magery 1+ prevent spellcasting entirely ("You can only use your power...", "You must...in order to cast spells."). Thaumatology "corrects" this.

A Quirk isn't the same as a limitation.

The basic set gives conflicting information regarding limited Magery thanks to poor wording.

"Magery 0 costs 5 points for all mages, but you may apply one of the limitations below to the 10 points/level for Magery 1+."

Logically if the limitation doesn't apply to Magery 0 then Magery 0 works normally regardless of the limitations on Magery +1

GURPS Fantasy clarifies that the limitations do not effect the Magery 0 but only the Magery 1+ part:

"For example, a character with Magery 0 can cast most spells, in a normal-mana environment" (pg 18)

"In addition to the previously defined limitations on Magery, a GM may allow any of the following options. Note these do not affect Magery 0, which always costs 5 points." (pg 129)

Thaumatology nearly clarified what already existed.

Its like how many of the magic rules assume that magic is mana powered even through there are alternatives.

NPC (in a blacksmith shop): I have you wizard. This area is dead to magic.
Wizard: Mana based magic. My power comes from Hephaestus. Fireball.
NPC gets a 1d6 fireball to the face. Oops. :-)

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by maximara

A Quirk isn't the same as a limitation.

RyanW phrased it unclearly (or quoted the wrong post). The quirk has nothing to do with it, Thaumatology p21 explains how to limit Magery 0 with spellcasting only: Apply the limitation at half value (e. g. Song Magery is normally -40%, but if applied like this is -20%), and then you can sense magic items or use Mage-only magic items without singing, but still need to sing to cast any spells.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

RyanW phrased it unclearly (or quoted the wrong post). The quirk has nothing to do with it, Thaumatology p21 explains how to limit Magery 0 with spellcasting only: Apply the limitation at half value (e. g. Song Magery is normally -40%, but if applied like this is -20%), and then you can sense magic items or use Mage-only magic items without singing, but still need to sing to cast any spells.

Ah. Though I realized something. How does this all apply to enhancements?

I mean Magery 1 (No Zero-Level Requirement; +10%) is only 11 points vs the 15 it normally would cost.

Magery 0 (No Spell Prerequisites; +30%) would be 6 points (5.75 round up)

If you are wondering, playing Champions does cause you to look for "point breaks" like this. :-)

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by maximara

A Quirk isn't the same as a limitation.

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

RyanW phrased it unclearly (or quoted the wrong post). The quirk has nothing to do with it, Thaumatology p21 explains how to limit Magery 0 with spellcasting only: Apply the limitation at half value (e. g. Song Magery is normally -40%, but if applied like this is -20%), and then you can sense magic items or use Mage-only magic items without singing, but still need to sing to cast any spells.

The point I had intended to make is that:

Magery 0 (Song Casting, -20%) [4]

is equivalent points-wise to

Magery 0 [5]
Quirk: Song casting [-1]

[maximara]

Originally Posted by RyanW

The point I had intended to make is that:

Magery 0 (Song Casting, -20%) [4]

is equivalent points-wise to

Magery 0 [5]
Quirk: Song casting [-1]

While it costs the same as a quirk it is not actually a quirk.

Magery 0 (Song Casting, -20%) means that Song casting is intrinsic to the magery itself.

Magery 0 [5] with Quirk: Song casting [-1] means that is something the person chooses to do. Perhaps a habit they picked up or it is the way spells are taught by the teacher they had.

Contrast

Magery 0 (Solitary Casting, -20%) [4]

with

Magery 0 [5]
Quirk: Solitary casting [-1]

The first is required while the second is something the mage prefers to do. No matter how much they want to the first mage cannot cast spells when people are within a certain distance of them while the second can..though he prefers not to.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by maximara

Magery 1 (No Zero-Level Requirement; +10%) is only 11 points vs the 15 it normally would cost.

Magery 0 (No Spell Prerequisites; +30%) would be 6 points (5.75 round up)

Originally Posted by maximara

Magery 0 (Solitary Casting, -20%) [4]

Does anyone know what book/page these are in?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Plane

Does anyone know what book/page these are in?

No Zero-Level Requirement; +10%: Thaumatology p.67, in a discussion of building Power Investiture for clerics (as opposed to a one-off for individual mages).

No Spell Prerequisites; +30%: Thaumatology p.67. Also referenced in a paragraph in Magical Styles p.16, again on building clerical magic.

Solitary Casting, -20%: Not as such in my PDFs. As "Solitary", -40%, B67.