Epic Adventures

[AlexanderHowl]

I was curious what people think when they hear the phrase 'epic adventure'? When I hear the phrase, I imagine campaigns that involve PCs of 1000+ CP who are fighting enemies who are 2,000+ CP because failure would doom the people, world, or even existence itself. Beyond that, I imagine worlds where average people are 250+ CP because lesser individuals who simply be meals for monsters too weak for epic heroes to bother with.

For example, a suitable campaign would involve a party of adventurers invading the Underworld in order to rescue the Goddess of Fertility from the clutches of the God of Death before he forces her to marry him. Since the Goddess of Fertility was stolen, the living have been temporarily afflicted with sterility throughout the world. If they fail to prevent the wedding, the living become permanently sterile while the dead become permanently fertile.

So, what about you? How would you define epic adventures? Have you had any epic adventures that you want to share?

[edk926]

To me, epic adventures are extended, wide-ranging story arcs that can take characters all over the known (and in some cases, completely unknown) "world". I don't think characters need to start with high points in order to have an epic adventure. Most console/computer rpgs are epic adventures, and characters generally start as weak nobodies.

[Gumby Bush]

"Epic" isn't about power for me, but instead has more to do with scale, and perhaps the inclusion of grand forces like "good vs. evil" or "order vs chaos." 75-150 point hobbits trying to destroy the one ring would count... they might well wind up 250-400 (or more) points by the end, but no need to start there.

Your campaign suggestion might actually work with some clever 150-pointers (it would also be amusing to try running a bunch of 50-point farmers trying to save the crops, but that might be more "epic comedy" than "epic adventure"). They'd have to be clever rather than use force, but that would be the challenge of it.

The rules in effect matter, to. I wouldn't expect limbs (or eyes) to be crippled for long in an epic campaign unless it was an effect of a cursed item.

[edk926]

I'd probably write off anything that doesn't kill you as a "flesh wound", much like most console/computer rpgs.

[newton]

you don’t need everybody to be high CP to prevent them getting killed by absurdly powerful forces... after all isn’t that the hero’s job?

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was curious what people think when they hear the phrase 'epic adventure'? When I hear the phrase, I imagine campaigns that involve PCs of 1000+ CP who are fighting enemies who are 2,000+ CP because failure would doom the people, world, or even existence itself. Beyond that, I imagine worlds where average people are 250+ CP because lesser individuals who simply be meals for monsters too weak for epic heroes to bother with.

For example, a suitable campaign would involve a party of adventurers invading the Underworld in order to rescue the Goddess of Fertility from the clutches of the God of Death before he forces her to marry him. Since the Goddess of Fertility was stolen, the living have been temporarily afflicted with sterility throughout the world. If they fail to prevent the wedding, the living become permanently sterile while the dead become permanently fertile.

So, what about you? How would you define epic adventures? Have you had any epic adventures that you want to share?

I think tying "power level", whether that's character point values or D&D character level, to "epicness" is a trap. What's more "epic" - four level 30 D&D PCs taking on Tiamat in a battle that lasts for four sessions after they penetrate deep into her extraplanar realm, or three children facing down the goddess of death to bring the sun back into the sky? I'd say they're both cool, and both epic. I think a key point is that the opposition - whether that's actual enemies or simply massive obstacles - has to be very powerful.

IMO, "epicness" is tied to emotional impact and awe. Power level is irrelevant. If you insist that only high-powered characters can have epic adventures, you're ignoring a lot of possibilities and tying yourself to, basically, playing Dragonball Z. Power level over 9000 isn't required for awesome.

Based on your past posting, I think you'll dismiss this as "unrealistic" or at least implausible, but hey - you asked for my definition. As for examples... I tend not to play epic games, so looking to fiction:

The Bridge of Birds: A Novel of Ancient China That Never Was, by Barry Hughart. Village boy Number Ten Ox and the remarkably cynical and wise Master Li try to save the lives of some children and encounter gods, demons, and the dread Duke of Qin on the way. Point levels? 250 at the very, very most for Master Li.

Beowulf, Gilgamesh, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and Monkey/Journey to the West - I'm lumping these three together because the protagonists are definitely high powered - especially Monkey! TBH, Journey to the West is the least "epic" for me because Monkey can pretty trivially best all of the challenges on the journey, but the fun of it is in the hijinks. The others, OTOH, are about facing some deep stuff - fear, honor, inevitable death, brotherhood and loss, etc.

Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion. These two are a nice contrast; both have epic stories (the Silmarillion has a couple!), but while the Silmarillion is stuffed to the gills with "high point level" characters (Feanor, Sauron, Glorfindel, Glaurung, Beren, Turin, Luthien, etc. etc. etc.), the heroes of LotR are four hobbits who can probably be comfortably built on 150 points and assorted Men, Elves, and Dwarves who don't need much more. (Mind, Elrond, Gandalf, Galadriel, Treebeard - they probably pop the 1000-point mark easily, but a lot of the themes are about not using power, so...)

[pestigor]

There is some appeal to use a bunch of high priced advantages combined with high stat & skill levels and see what happens. If a person is up to all the work involved with stating out opposition to the characters and then remembering all those powers and advantages you stated out in the middle of a hours long combat...go for it.

I can't do that. My group has kind of lost interest in those sorts of endeavors.
If I can run something that has the, "Man, that was cool!" effect on the players, that engages them and doesn't railroad them AND allows them to tell THEIR story, then that's pretty epic.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was curious what people think when they hear the phrase 'epic adventure'?

Long with many chapters? 250 point characters are plenty for the heroes of epic poems.

[vicky_molokh]

The Gilgamesh saga and the Exalted setting/campaigns. Those kinds of things, with mythically capable protagonists.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, what about you? How would you define epic adventures? Have you had any epic adventures that you want to share?

For me, it's more about scope than power level, though the ultimate foe(s) are powerful. I ran a long (10+ years) fantasy campaign that was grim and gritty on some levels, with characters starting at 100 points (or 150? whatever the standard baseline was in 3e) and many early adventures dealing with survival, urban intrigue, etc. But the scope of the campaign grew to eventually focus on the incursion of an Elder God who was basically going to wipe out this reality. So it became really big and epic, despite the fact that many adventures focused on smaller aspects of the world. The campaign was, to some degree, modeled on the arc from The Hobbit to The Lord of the Rings — regular people (more or less) rising to the task of saving the world.