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Old 05-20-2019, 10:09 AM   #1
Ronnke
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Default Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

Without arbitrarily choosing a Gunner(Machine Gun) skill level for an automated sentry gun (like those seen in the Aliens movie), how would you go about modeling this in GURPS, using whatever rules available?

I'd like to arrive at a basic cost which is scalable with improved performance (ie complexity, skill and tech levels).

UT details programs and AI, but that all relates to IQ, Gunnery is a DX based skill. What is the DX of an AI for a given complexity computer?
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:17 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

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Originally Posted by Ronnke View Post
Without arbitrarily choosing a Gunner(Machine Gun) skill level for an automated sentry gun (like those seen in the Aliens movie), how would you go about modeling this in GURPS, using whatever rules available?
To my knowledge thereare no such rules. At least not any in any of the major products.

3e had exactly what you're looking for but those rules were not brought forward to 4e. In 4e I get the idea that you're supposed to design all robots as characters.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:17 AM   #3
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

My main thought is that acc is likely added to every short, since a solid design would wire the wide angle sensors and the aiming sensors together.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:50 AM   #4
Black Leviathan
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

The stats would depend a bit on tech level. However the gunner software would run off a weapon skill of 10-12 most likely. At higher tech levels it has better optics that would improve that skill and very high tech programs would have higher skill. While low-tech turrets would have big flaws like poor night vision, or inability to track still targets. If the turret gains accuracy each shot it would have to aim in my book. But it automatically counts as braced and committed, as it's designed to be stable in it's mounting and it isn't phased by anything else going on in the combat or distracted with it's own safety.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:02 PM   #5
Verjigorm
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnke View Post
Without arbitrarily choosing a Gunner(Machine Gun) skill level for an automated sentry gun (like those seen in the Aliens movie), how would you go about modeling this in GURPS, using whatever rules available?

I'd like to arrive at a basic cost which is scalable with improved performance (ie complexity, skill and tech levels).

UT details programs and AI, but that all relates to IQ, Gunnery is a DX based skill. What is the DX of an AI for a given complexity computer?
I like to use a combination of programs for skill points/advantages. I use the Thinking Machines rules from Pyramid, so I don't have the normal computers of basic/ht/ut. I prefer it.

But i typically don't give many AIs more than DX10, they just have a lot of skill. Often 20-30 for DX based skills.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:12 PM   #6
VariousRen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

In reality machines can be really, really good at pointing thing A in direction B. Most of the difficulty of making a machine that shoots at a target is defining what the target is, which is a computer vision problem and for a machine would map well to IQ. I would automatically add any aim bonuses the weapon can claim, including optics built into the sentry system, because computers are very quick at that sort of math/work. I'd also apply penalties based on the quality of the sentry mount, so a cheap tripod mount may be a -3 while a sturdy wall mount is -0. Lighting (or infrared equivalent) would be very important and always be applied, and stealth could be used to not look like a target and avoid detection entirely.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:02 PM   #7
The Colonel
 
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Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

As I understand it the current issue with making sentry guns is to do with stopping them from shooting things they are not meant to as opposed to them not being able to hit things - theoretical I know since no-one has actually built one as far as I know (although I think the Israelites have a remote turret system for AFV that comes close, but still with a human gunner who actually authorizes the fire). The issue cropped up somewhere around the recent "killer robot" panic...
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:17 PM   #8
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

I would note that the reasons for humans missing in combat, at least at moderate range, do not have a lot to do with mechanical accuracy, and in fact, much like machines, target recognition is a considerable problem. It is actually hard to create a model for DX that does not include a substantial element of perception, which is one reason I've suggested that some sorts of perception should actually be floated to DX (IQ should be for target identification, but spotting something where identification is trivial or not needed should not be IQ).
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:11 PM   #9
JackFalcon13
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

I think the issue with these is that the real difficulty is target recognition. People miss at shooting because their hands aren't steady, or they jerk the trigger, or they didn't dial in the range on their scope properly, or they didn't lead the target enough. All of these are problems that either don't exist for a machine or are easily solved for with a few milliseconds of math. There's ballistics calculators that exist as cellphone apps that can pretty much give you an exact point of impact at any range.

Samsung makes an automated turret deployed in the Korean DMZ. The test video I saw of it shooting puts a long burst of full-auto into a heart sized area at a decent range, maybe 50 yards or so. Don't worry - they claim it's smart enough to tell you to surrender first.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:25 PM   #10
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Skill level of an automated sentry gun?

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Samsung makes an automated turret deployed in the Korean DMZ. The test video I saw of it shooting puts a long burst of full-auto into a heart sized area at a decent range, maybe 50 yards or so. Don't worry - they claim it's smart enough to tell you to surrender first.
Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply.

You now have 15 seconds to comply. You are in direct violation of Penal Code 1.13, Section 9.

You have 5 seconds to comply. 4. 3. 2. 1. I am now authorized to use physical force!
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