10-24-2018, 01:51 PM | #41 | |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Killing Slavers
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10-24-2018, 02:14 PM | #42 | |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Killing Slavers
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I love giving players moral dilemmas, but they shouldn't be unresolvable. Your players should feel empowered, not trapped. If you present them with choices that feel like they lost either way, they're going to get weary of constantly "loosing". I find the best "Moral Dilemmas" are good role playing moments. They give the players a chance to examine their character's motives and choose a side. They shape a character's outlook rather than punishing them. Does that make them less of a dilemma? maybe. But I think the term is pretty close to these sort of decisions.
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10-24-2018, 02:49 PM | #43 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Killing Slavers
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EDIT: Also, don't forget good old corporal punishment. A day in the stocks, some lashings, etc are traditional punishments for those who's crimes don't warrant death. Quote:
I can certainly envision slavery systems that, while not necessarily good, certainly aren't innately evil. The version used in my DF setting would be an example. The evil really comes into play when people twist and abuse the system.
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GURPS Overhaul Last edited by Varyon; 10-24-2018 at 03:00 PM. |
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10-24-2018, 03:20 PM | #44 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Killing Slavers
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And parenthetically, much as many people like to pretend otherwise for political reasons, isn't the case that there are plenty of minimum wage jobs open to anybody even now, certainly not where the people needing them live (and minimum wage employers certainly aren't going to pay for you to relocate!) and *particularly* not for those ex-convicts. There's a reason that question is on pretty much every job application you've ever put it in you know.
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10-24-2018, 04:09 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Killing Slavers
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10-24-2018, 04:51 PM | #46 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Killing Slavers
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10-24-2018, 05:05 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Killing Slavers
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One notable point in English law is when Alfred declared the King the avenger of any travellers in his realm. Presumably before every patriarch avenged locals but travelers were either guys-with-swords or slaves who had not been captured yet. I remember that brought home in Wouk's duology. In the beginning Slote was able to tell the SS officer effectively, "What the heck is it your business whether or not we have Jews in our diplomatic convoy under the flag of a nation that has a big bad navy and a bigger badder industrial complex? At Auschwitz at the end, Jews if they survived, were SLAVES. And worse off slaves then most. They had no strength to hit back on their own and no one had anyone to hit back for them.
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison Last edited by jason taylor; 10-24-2018 at 05:22 PM. |
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10-24-2018, 05:16 PM | #48 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Killing Slavers
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I recall a discussion about Lawful Good and how it intersects with slavery. In D&D the simple answer was to make the Lawfuls who were encultured into a slave society as either LE or LN. But I argued even in such a society there would be some LGs doing their best to convince their fellows to be kind to their slaves but not rebelling and yeah I got some negative feedback but I still think it's a reasonable interpretation. The same applies to the Honest Charitable/CHI people in GURPS who are native to slaveholding civilizations...which is every real civilization prior to the fall of the Roman Empire. They try to help the slaves when they can, but they don't rebel against the system to do it. They pull a Paul the Apostle. https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqna...ul-and-slavery But yeah, you basically have to poll your players for any kneejerk reactions they may have to slavery before using it in a game if you don't want to make it about overthrowing the social system or fighting the evil slavers over there as opposed to our anachronistically virtuous lot. |
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10-24-2018, 06:21 PM | #49 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Killing Slavers
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If they 'win'* but with a cost, that's usually the 'best' outcome in terms of Player enjoyment. Rather than 'easy moral decision'. * Whatever winning looks like in that context. Quote:
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10-24-2018, 06:32 PM | #50 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Killing Slavers
A moral dilemma doesn't require two bad choices, just two flawed choices. I agree that "the PCs can't win" is problematic, but having partial victories is fine.
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