What else to put on a wand of Fireball?

[5too]

I'm playing with ways to make an "Adventuring Enchanter" template that works from the default Magic rules, and I'm trying to figure out how some of the enchantment spells should work with missile spell enchantments.

The main thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the Speed enchantment, which halves casting time for anything else on the item (per level of Speed). The description for missile spell casting (B240) dictates that you first cast the spell (concentrate for one second then roll), and then spend 1-3 of the next seconds charging it; after which it's ready to fire. What I'm not clear on is how much of this would be considered the "casting" step - what effect would Speed 1 have on this process? Would the first step (roll vs spell level) simply no longer require concentration? Could you cast and do 1 charging step in 1 turn, and charge again and fire it on the next? Would firing it off then still be a separate turn (or would it be turn 1: roll and charge, turn 2: charge and fire)? Is there any effect at all?

Also, is there any chance a wand with a Missile spell enchantment might count as a missile weapon, for enchantments like Quick-Aim? Similarly, are items with missile spell enchantments valid targets for Accuracy, or Puissance; which apply to a generic "weapon"? Would any or all of these apply to a weapon using the Winged Knife enchantment, rather than something like Fireball or Lightning?

Finally, I'd like to verify my understanding of how Power affects the process. The Power enchantment provides a similar benefit to other enchantments on an item that high skill levels provide ordinary spellcasting - it pays some of the fatigue cost for the spell being cast, allowing the caster to cast the spell at a discount. As I understand it, for Missile spells, this process works a bit differently - after a successful casting roll, the energy discount is already counted as applied to the spell, so you can still add your full Magery on top of that. That is, if you have Fireball-15 and Magery 2, your first charging turn you get 1 free energy point, and can add another 2. On the next two turns, you can add another 2 energy points, getting a fireball with a total of 7 dice of damage after putting in 6 FP. Or, at a minimum, you can take just use the free energy point and throw out a 1d fireball for 0 energy. So, following this logic, Power 2 would provide an initial 2 free points of energy (for 2d damage) to each fireball, correct?

[Refplace]

I would say no benefit from Speed as the max die per round of charging is based on Magery.
I give Wands Acc 1 and they can get a Quality bonus. If using that, definitely, but I still like wands being eligible for Accuracy enchantment. Wouldn't give them Puissance though.

A knife seems like a good candidate to have Winged Knife enchantment.
For Missile spells you only get the Magery (or Power in this case) discount once, not per charging step.

[AlexanderHowl]

Missile enchantments are exceptionally useless for the majority of users, as their Magery determines the effects of the items. For example, let us say that you have Fireball staff with Power-2 (both Power 15). The staff requires 1800 energy points, which represents 5 years of enchantment, all for a staff that would be useless for someone with Magery 0 (and which is useless in low mana regions). No matter how powerful the item, a Magery 0 individual can only add 0 dice per turn, a Magery 1 individual 1 dice per turn, etc.

[Willy]

I mostly used on staffs single enchantments, they represent to much work to be endangered in combat, one emeny swordblow and your staff is beyond repairs. When browsing supplements in which the mages carry staffs they needed years to accomplish, I often shake my head. I think that is nice for powerful NPC Mages but not for PCs who are dungeon delving and so on.

The winged knife, dancing sword is an exeption, very useful, just take a high quality or better weapon before enchanting. Putting month of work into a heap of junk is a waste by itself. Not to mention the higher chance of breaking... .

A mean trick is to use dedicated powerstones to a wand of lightning / fireball and so on, even a 5 point stone gives anybody with magery the oppertunity to fire 15 1d6 fireballs. That´s the gun of magic realms. Of coures reloading is long. But give each of your apprentices one and you are doubling your own firepower.

[AlexanderHowl]

The primary issue for any enchanted item is that they are not usually worth the effort to create because they are unrealistically cheap. An enchanter must have Magery 2 and a minimum of eleven spells, one of them a VH spell, and a minimum of the VH spell and another spell must be at 15. An IQ 12 individual would need to spend 29 CP on skills in order to support Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable), when they would be better off ignoring their Magery and spending their time learning the skills required to become a bard, as 20 CP would give an IQ 12 individual Literature-14, Musical Instrument-12, and Singing-12, allowing them to sustain Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable) with less effort and less danger.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The primary issue for any enchanted item is that they are not usually worth the effort to create because they are unrealistically cheap. An enchanter must have Magery 2 and a minimum of eleven spells, one of them a VH spell, and a minimum of the VH spell and another spell must be at 15. An IQ 12 individual would need to spend 29 CP on skills in order to support Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable), when they would be better off ignoring their Magery and spending their time learning the skills required to become a bard, as 20 CP would give an IQ 12 individual Literature-14, Musical Instrument-12, and Singing-12, allowing them to sustain Status 1 and Wealth (Comfortable) with less effort and less danger.

Enchanters would generally be in the service to the ruling elite - not only as a status symbol but to provide the army with magic weapons.

More over the enchanter is able to make magic items with some (or perhaps all) of the 10 spells then needed to get to learn Enchant so it isn't like they are a one trick pony. Never mind that I doubt a IQ 12 (above average) mage would bother with enchantment simple because it would require a lot of their time.

Look at a 4e version of Raphael Holyoak.

Yes he has IQ 14 (Exceptional) and Magery 3 but that means for just 2 CP he can become an enchanter. He has potentially 31 spells (this is not counting the two that are only 14) he can turn into magic items.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Willy

The winged knife, dancing sword is an exeption, very useful,.

Also very useful is Ghost Weapon on a Staff. You can then cast Touch or Melee spells on insubstantial beings.

Another very good trick you get with just the basic Staff Enchantment. It's an enchanted object so you can stick it through a Force Wall/Dome. Bypassing eenmy Force protections is obvious but you can also protect yourself from mundane attackers without limiting your casting options. Wish I'd been the one who thought of it.

[5too]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Another very good trick you get with just the basic Staff Enchantment. It's an enchanted object so you can stick it through a Force Wall/Dome. Bypassing eenmy Force protections is obvious but you can also protect yourself from mundane attackers without limiting your casting options. Wish I'd been the one who thought of it.

Wasn't there errata or another book or something that defined the "magical creatures" that could bypass Force Wall/Dome as needing to be composed entirely of magic (like an elemental), rather than a creature that had magical features (like a leprechaun or a zombie)? I assumed that applied to objects as well - a weapon with an enchantment on it (or a bolt from a Missile spell) couldn't pass, but the fire from a Flame Jet could.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Missile enchantments are exceptionally useless for the majority of users, as their Magery determines the effects of the items. For example, let us say that you have Fireball staff with Power-2 (both Power 15). The staff requires 1800 energy points, which represents 5 years of enchantment, all for a staff that would be useless for someone with Magery 0 (and which is useless in low mana regions). No matter how powerful the item, a Magery 0 individual can only add 0 dice per turn, a Magery 1 individual 1 dice per turn, etc.

IMHO this is a misunderstanding of how enchantment works. One of the problems is all the spells in Magic are slight alterations of classic spells which were written up when Magery 1 was the lowest a Mage could be so the problem of Magery o (other then a house rule) never came up.

"An item’s Power equals the caster’s effective skill with either the Enchant spell or the spell contained in the item – whichever is lower."

From this it follows that since caster’s effective skill includes their Magery bonus the Magery limits are also determined by the Magery of the enchanter not the user.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by maximara

IMHO this is a misunderstanding of how enchantment works. One of the problems is all the spells in Magic are slight alterations of classic spells which were written up when Magery 1 was the lowest a Mage could be so the problem of Magery o (other then a house rule) never came up.

"An item’s Power equals the caster’s effective skill with either the Enchant spell or the spell contained in the item – whichever is lower."

From this it follows that since caster’s effective skill includes their Magery bonus the Magery limits are also determined by the Magery of the enchanter not the user.

No, that does not follow, since a nonmage does not effectively receive Magery while operating a magical item. Anyway, if that was the case, a Staff of Fireball created by someone with IQ 12 and Magery 3 should be an least 50% more valuable than a Staff of Fireball created by someone with IQ 13 and Magery 2, as it would be 50% more effective, and we do not have any indication of such a price difference in the rules. In addition, this is also ignoring the limitations on the Magery of the creator, as such a rule would mean that a creator with Magery 3 (Dance, -40%; Day, -40%) [11] would impart their limited Magery upon the user of any magical item that they produced, which should really be reflected in the price (a Staff of Fireball that required its user to dance and only worked during the day should really cost much less than one not so limited).