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Old 03-08-2018, 08:12 PM   #1321
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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This sounded entertaining, and it was. Thank you.
You're welcome!

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Having binged since I saw these posts, they do mention it in passing on occasion.
They've even started posting the character sheets to their website. So even though the podcast itself doesn't put a lampshade on the system, it's not completely invisible. And at least some fragment of their listeners are interested in digging deeper into how they implement GURPS.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:55 PM   #1322
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Which very important information to disseminate. The current market for GURPS supports art-light B&W PDFs, mostly on the short side . . . and GURPS is alive and well in that form.

Everybody has the right to their preferences: hardback, softback, or PDF; color or B&W; art-heavy or art-light; 256 pages, 128 pages, 64 pages, or shorter; and so on. However, "GURPS done according to the precise preferences I enjoy" is a subset of "GURPS." From the perspective of someone whose entire income has depended on GURPS for 23 years, it's distressing when the failure to meet specific preferences is spoken of as death. That leads to the sort of rumor that can put a guy out of a job.


That is a grossly unfair response. Phil Reed said the following in the last two StakeHolders Reports :(1) DF took way longer than it should have taken, leading to cost overruns (2) DF was a failure.

I bought the DF RP game as an old GURPS player. Phil Reed tells me that the game was not managed well and is now dead, right out of the gate. I had thought that the DF RPG was an accessible reboot of GURPS. So my money was not well spent.

A clarifying post from Mr. Reed would be nice, instead of attacks against anyone who, logically, thinks the GURPS line is "dead".


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Old 03-18-2018, 03:05 PM   #1323
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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A clarifying post from Mr. Reed would be nice, instead of attacks against anyone who, logically, thinks the GURPS line is "dead".
Sean's post was excellent. He in no way attacked anyone; Sean merely stated facts and was more open with everyone than many may be used to. One thing we always try to do: Be as transparent as possible and provide as much information as we can. Sean did exactly that.

Two quotes from the report that are applicable here:

"The current market doesn't leave room for a game like this to succeed . . . "

"The Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game shipped late, yes, but the final package was a successful GURPS introductory boxed set loaded with lots of great gaming potential."

http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/

If today's game market wasn't in the shape that it is, we would have been in a position to take a greater risk and we would have gone with our original planned print run. Unfortunately, the realities of the market is that games either blow out the door and become hits on Day One . . . or they quickly fade and vanish.

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Old 03-19-2018, 03:15 PM   #1324
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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That is a grossly unfair response.

A clarifying post from Mr. Reed would be nice, instead of attacks against anyone who, logically, thinks the GURPS line is "dead".
I am sorry that you found my reply unfair. It was not, however, an attack. It was a statement of fact:
  • The Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game, while based on GURPS, isn't GURPS . . . it's the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. Its success or failure shouldn't be taken as GURPS' success or failure.

  • What sells profitably, what sells unprofitably, and what doesn't sell at all isn't knowable so much as discoverable. I was sharing our latest discoveries.

  • What we've discovered that would affect GURPS is that a specific format isn't particularly viable right now. That format is inherently prone to the sorts of things that made the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game costly, and would probably have the same problems if used for GURPS.
My comment that people have the right to a choice is the opposite of an attack – it's an endorsement! I'm all for respecting others' choices. It's just that we can't always deliver those.

And as I confessed, I have a vested personal interest in making sure "we can't deliver choice X for GURPS" isn't read as "we can't deliver GURPS," as the latter leads to rumors that could actually end my livelihood.
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Old 03-19-2018, 05:05 PM   #1325
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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I am sorry that you found my reply unfair. It was not, however, an attack. It was a statement of fact:
  • The Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game, while based on GURPS, isn't GURPS . . . it's the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game. Its success or failure shouldn't be taken as GURPS' success or failure.

  • What sells profitably, what sells unprofitably, and what doesn't sell at all isn't knowable so much as discoverable. I was sharing our latest discoveries.

  • What we've discovered that would affect GURPS is that a specific format isn't particularly viable right now. That format is inherently prone to the sorts of things that made the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game costly, and would probably have the same problems if used for GURPS.
My comment that people have the right to a choice is the opposite of an attack – it's an endorsement! I'm all for respecting others' choices. It's just that we can't always deliver those.

And as I confessed, I have a vested personal interest in making sure "we can't deliver choice X for GURPS" isn't read as "we can't deliver GURPS," as the latter leads to rumors that could actually end my livelihood.
Everything about this post is reasonable. Except for the last paragraph (and the corresponding comment in your original response). A customer who spends $50 and reads almost immediately that the DFRPG was a “failure” should be able to reasonably ask about the GURPS line’s viability without being told that the Line editor is personally upset by the question.

Admittedly, I was excited about the DFRPG (it was the only Christmas present I asked for) and am upset that it was so quickly abandoned by SJG. So I probably don’t have the best attitude. I’m glad that you and Phil have clarified that GURPS is still viable. I will try to sell the DFRPG + ongoing PDFs to my group.
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Old 03-19-2018, 05:10 PM   #1326
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A customer who spends $50 and reads almost immediately that the DFRPG was a “failure” should be able to reasonably ask about the GURPS line’s viability without being told that the Line editor is personally upset by the question.
I didn't say I was upset; I said I had a vested interest in clear air. Specifically, I want it to be clear that the viability of a whole game line that's normally published in one format is not in any way determined by the sales success of another game line (even a related one!) published in a different format. To say anything else would be dishonest. This is what's known as "declaring a personal interest," and it's just about always considered best practices; in fact, it's the law in some places.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:29 PM   #1327
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Speaking as the guy who probably started the trail of posts that lead to Kromm's post that is under discussion now the questions that are in that post were the first questions that popped into my head after reading the report. As I pointed out a few posts after the above mentioned post I did admit that at least one of my questions was perhaps poorly worded. I did rephrase it later, but I still haven't edited my post to change the original question. I'd be happy to do that to avoid starting rumors of premature GURPS death, or the mods here can do that since they have the power to do so.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:26 PM   #1328
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I would actually counsel against that. Anybody who cares enough to read the thread will understand - unless we go back and change history, in which case the rest of the discourse ceases to make sense. But thank you for the well meant offer!
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:01 AM   #1329
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it is frustrating when a Munchkin fan is forced to spend five, ten, or twenty times MSRP on eBay to get a game they want
But here's a doom-laden post sure to drive up the after-market value on half our catalogue anyway. :\

I get not being able to keep the entire line in print at all times - at the size it is that's pretty impractical - but to announce you're writing off swathes of the line as never being reprinted is a gift to scalpers on the secondary market.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:16 AM   #1330
Andrew Hackard
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But here's a doom-laden post sure to drive up the after-market value on half our catalogue anyway. :\

I get not being able to keep the entire line in print at all times - at the size it is that's pretty impractical - but to announce you're writing off swathes of the line as never being reprinted is a gift to scalpers on the secondary market.
Very little for the Munchkin line is currently out of print*; this is an alert that some things that are available now won't be reprinted once they're gone. It is an attempt to give people a chance to pick up those games now while they are still in the primary market.

If people want more details about exactly what we're expecting to let trickle off shelves, check out my Munchkin News post from April 2 of this year (scroll down a bit).

* The exceptions, as of this writing, are: (a) Roughly half of the 15-/30-card mini-expansions, almost all of which were intended to be single-printing items anyway; (b) Some of the Munchkin accessory products such as the Kill-O-Meter; (c) Several of the Deluxe format games (including some of the Guest Artist Edition series); (d) The Good, the Bad, and the Munchkin. Categories (a) and (b) may still be in some stores; categories (c) and (d) certainly are.
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