Steve Jackson Games Forums The chance to hit a NINJA...
 Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 Notices Our primary server had issues at our hosting provider and had to be restored from backup. Posts made after 5/20/2018 11:59PM CDT (UTC -5) and before 5/22/2018 3:00pm CDT may be missing and are not expected to return. Posts made after 5/22/2018 3:00pm CDT (UTC -5) and before 5/23/2018 10:00am CDT may be missing from view until new posts are made to that thread.

 06-12-2018, 10:20 PM #1 Tim Kauffman   Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Pennsylvania The chance to hit a NINJA... is -1 on the D6 roll. Is having it a -1 CRT Column shift to the left the same thing, assuming attacks at 5to1 or greater are still automatic Xs? I think it is, except at 1to1 odds, on a roll of 4 and using -1 to the D6 roll is a D while a column shift to the left -1 is a NE...which in the case of attacking an OGRE is the same end result, is that correct? Am I missing anything? __________________ "So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars My Flicker Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57680554140954 Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 06-13-2018 at 06:37 PM.
 06-13-2018, 12:35 PM #2 TheAmishStig MIB   Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Lancaster, PA Re: The chance to hit a NINJA... Against a unit that ignores D results it's effectively the same thing, with the exception for 5-1 [the entire column is Xs]. On the CRT, the number of Xs always changes by 1 going from column to column. Though it brings up a question...at 3-1 and higher, what is a result of 0? The Battle Box rules don't explicitly say, but I'd imagine the smart move is probably that a roll can't go below 1 or above 6. Against troops that Ds do affect, it doesn't hold up. NEs double or halve with each step [4-2-1-0-0-0], Xs add or subtract one with each step [1-2-3-4-5-6], then Ds fill in whatever's left...sometimes it's 1 D, sometimes it's 2. Ogre Minis' rules for Hulks might have an effect on that, because the lowest X leaves a hulk...but the stepped progression should make it a non-issue. Don't quote me on that bit. __________________ Andy Mull Agent #0460 Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ Last edited by TheAmishStig; 06-13-2018 at 02:37 PM.
06-13-2018, 12:59 PM   #3
ColBosch

Join Date: May 2007
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheAmishStig ...I'd imagine the smart move is probably that a roll can't go below 1 or above 6.
Correct.

Quote:
 Ogre Minis' rules for Husks might have an effect on that, because the lowest X leaves a husk...but the stepped progression should make it a non-issue. Don't quote me on that bit.
Hulks, not husks.
__________________
Keeper of the GURPS Banner
See my Ogre collections!
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmcLnb7v and https://flic.kr/s/aHsksV83ZP

06-13-2018, 02:38 PM   #4
TheAmishStig

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ColBosch Hulks, not husks.
Correction made. That's what I get for posting on lunch instead of waiting until I got home.
__________________
Andy Mull
Agent #0460
Lancaster, PA

Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/

 06-13-2018, 06:01 PM #5 wolf90 Ogre Line Editor     Join Date: Jun 2010 Re: The chance to hit a NINJA... Husks are what is left behind when Ogrethulhu sucks out your SOUL . . . ! D. __________________ Proud sponsor of Ogre KS \$4.5k Sheet #3 - Bringing the Vatican Guard, a Tiger-striped mercenary unit, and of course pink GEVs, to a game near you! Orders may be placed here: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/sponsored-counters/ including adding the Strategic & Tactical Objectives sheet to your order!
06-13-2018, 06:44 PM   #6
Tim Kauffman

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Thanks for the confirmation guys.
Would it be superfluous nonsense to have this mentioned in the official rules, that players can use the -1 to the D6 or a -1 left column shift on the CRT and 5to1 odds are still considered automatic Xs?

I think some people (I'm one of them) may prefer the left column shift method, and if it yields the same relative results, it may be worth adding at some point.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wolf90 Husks are what is left behind when Ogrethulhu sucks out your SOUL . . . ! D.
This has to be included in the Ogrethulhu rules somehow! XD
__________________
"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars

My Flicker Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57680554140954

06-13-2018, 07:46 PM   #7
TheAmishStig

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman Thanks for the confirmation guys. Would it be superfluous nonsense to have this mentioned in the official rules, that players can use the -1 to the D6 or a -1 left column shift on the CRT and 5to1 odds are still considered automatic Xs? I think some people (I'm one of them) may prefer the left column shift method, and if it yields the same relative results, it may be worth adding at some point.
I like it for the "quick reference" factor. "If I come in with A6, that's normally a 2-1, but because I'm shooting at a Ninja my chances of an X are actually...so maybe I'll come in with A9 instead", rather than actually shifting down when the roll is made.

Would rather not (personally) get into the habit of doing that as a rule of thumb, because I know I'll use it when Ds are meaningful and unintentionally throw the game's balance out of whack.
__________________
Andy Mull
Agent #0460
Lancaster, PA

Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/

06-13-2018, 08:13 PM   #8
Tim Kauffman

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheAmishStig I like it for the "quick reference" factor. "If I come in with A6, that's normally a 2-1, but because I'm shooting at a Ninja my chances of an X are actually...so maybe I'll come in with A9 instead", rather than actually shifting down when the roll is made. Would rather not (personally) get into the habit of doing that as a rule of thumb, because I know I'll use it when Ds are meaningful and unintentionally throw the game's balance out of whack.
But isn't it all the same thing though? The -1 to hit or the -1 shift only applies when attacking a NINJA, which ignores Ds. The shifting down or the -1 to hit and looking before you roll isn't really throwing the game out anyway is it? You should be able to see ahead that way I would think.
Either method could be used to "quick reference" what you need to hit, and adjust as you see fit.
__________________
"So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars

My Flicker Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57680554140954

Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 06-13-2018 at 08:17 PM.

06-13-2018, 08:32 PM   #9
dwalend

Join Date: Oct 2005
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman Is having it a -1 CRT Column shift to the left the same thing [as a -1 on the D6 roll], assuming attacks at 5to1 or greater are still automatic Xs?
Yes. And in play they are effectively the same as doubling defense strength.

That unaltered 1:1 column remains the statistical sweet spot.

Last edited by dwalend; 06-14-2018 at 10:24 AM.

06-13-2018, 08:45 PM   #10
ColBosch

Join Date: May 2007
Re: The chance to hit a NINJA...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman But isn't it all the same thing though? The -1 to hit or the -1 shift only applies when attacking a NINJA, which ignores Ds. The shifting down or the -1 to hit and looking before you roll isn't really throwing the game out anyway is it? You should be able to see ahead that way I would think. Either method could be used to "quick reference" what you need to hit, and adjust as you see fit.
The end effect is the same and "-1 to the die roll" is an easy mechanic to explain and remember, so there is no point in wasting word count. Plus, it means you can use the same basic rule for other units - such as Ranger infantry - without having to then explain why you're not using column shifts for them.
__________________
Keeper of the GURPS Banner
See my Ogre collections!
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmcLnb7v and https://flic.kr/s/aHsksV83ZP

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Fnords are Off [IMG] code is Off HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Illuminati Headquarters     SJ Games Discussion     Daily Illuminator     Forum Feedback and Help     MIB Demo Events Warehouse 23     Warehouse 23 General Discussion     Warehouse 23 Digital     Pyramid Munchkin     Munchkin 101     Munchkin     Munchkin Collectible Card Game     Other Munchkin Games Roleplaying     Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game         DFRPG Resources     GURPS         GURPS Resources     Transhuman Space     Traveller     The Fantasy Trip     In Nomine     Roleplaying in General     Play By Post Board and Card Games     Car Wars     Ogre and G.E.V.         Ogre Video Game         Ogre Scenarios     Board and Dice Games     Card Games     Miniatures The Network     GURPS Character Assistant     GURPS Vehicle Builder     GURPS Character Builder The Gnomes of Zurich     The Industry     Conventions     Trading Post     Gamer Finder

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:26 AM.