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Old 06-11-2018, 11:46 AM   #1
RobW
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Looking at the GURPS material on sale, so much of it! But despite several attempts I've never gotten into it. So does anyone have guidance or pointers on how to approximately convert GURPS characters to TFT? I figure there must be a lot of expertise on these boards.

I'm not looking for anything exact, but for example, if a GURPS module says the party runs meets four 150-pt characters, is that about the same as 36 pt TFT or what?
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:09 PM   #2
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobW View Post
Looking at the GURPS material on sale, so much of it! But despite several attempts I've never gotten into it. So does anyone have guidance or pointers on how to approximately convert GURPS characters to TFT? I figure there must be a lot of expertise on these boards.

I'm not looking for anything exact, but for example, if a GURPS module says the party runs meets four 150-pt characters, is that about the same as 36 pt TFT or what?
Yes 150-pt warriors might be about like 36 pt fighters in TFT, or they might not.

I would ignore the GURPS character points, as they are a total of many things which don't have TFT equivalents.

I'd look at the attributes and skill levels, and the advantages and disadvantages.

A quick & dirty basic system for fast conversion would be something like:

ST is ST
However give them the TFT minST for whatever weapon they use if it is lower, which it likely will be. (e.g. In GURPS Broadsword only needs ST 10, Greatsword needs ST 12.)

DX is DX for non-skill DX purposes.
Look at the main weapon skill level - either use that for a fighter's DX, or maybe take half-way between there and their DX, depending on what power level you want. Or actually use the skill levels listed (or a bit less) as their DX for each weapon.

IQ is IQ for non-skill IQ purposes.
Look at their main professional skill levels and either just use that value (or average it with IQ) when rolling for those tasks, or give them that TFT IQ (or average it with IQ to get their TFT IQ).

in 3e books, HT is the damage (hitpoints) part of ST - you can choose to ignore it, use it for ST, average it with ST to get TFT ST, or give the TFT character a split ST.

in 4e books, HT is just health, but it makes you harder to kill - I'd tend to ignore it or give it a little less weight than 3e HT for hitpoint purposes.

Wizards are a bit harder to convert because (assuming the main GURPS Magic system is being used - there are a few others), most spell success is calculated not on DX but on IQ + Magery + spell skill (starts at -2), so they tend to get high IQ + Magery, and the chance for most GURPS mages to succeed on a spell is pretty high, which would tend to look like you should give even starting PC mages pretty high DX and IQ. If you directly converted, a typical starting PC mage would look like ST 10 DX 15 IQ 15-18. But GURPS Magic isn't quite as powerful, especially not in missile spells, and other spells get resistance rolls and aren't quite as powerful, and are limited by complex trees or prerequisites more often than by IQ or magery, but they can get tons of them (1 point each). I'd develop some sort of sliding scale, and look at what their spells actually are and how they would map to the spells in Wizard, and convert based on that.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:20 PM   #3
Jim Kane
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Rob W - this is not such an easy question to answer. To begin with, in TFT not all 32 point characters are of the same value in relation to each other.

It is easier to explain this concept with 24 point Melee characters, where a ST-12, DX-12 figure is worth less in statistical combat value than a ST-10, DX-14 figure. The real value of ST and DX varies based on where a value falls against the statistical average of the bell curve, and other mathematical factors. In short, and on average, in TFT, where 1 DX is worth roughly a bit more than 2.5 times that of 1 ST.

For some reason the value 2.68 or 2.86 is springing to mind, but do not hold me to it.

Therefore to even attempt to answer your question anywhere near: *remotely accurate*, I would ask: "what are the actual stats of the parties being compared?".

All that has to be considered before one tries to compare TFT's scale to GURPS scale; as the value of "1" is not the same in either case. I used to know the scale differential between these two systems. but I can tell you the "Size" difference is significant; as GURPS figures are much "larger" than TFT figures - pound for pound, if you will.

I wrote a paper on the actual combat value of various TFT fighters of the same point total, but of different values and combinations way back. I will see if I still have it in the file cabinet.

JK
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Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-11-2018 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:42 PM   #4
JLV
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

I'm kind of lazy, so what I've done (and I've used many a GURPS module or splat book in my TFT campaigns over the years) is simply this:

GURPS = TFT
IQ = IQ
DX = DX
ST+HT/2 = ST

Movement rates, I'll figure based on TFT's "humans go 10 hexes" standard (though, honestly, Movement Allowances is one of the areas where I think some better rules could be drafted for TFT to help better reflect "reality" (not ALL humans run at the same rate, etc. and encumbrances can and should change that in a logically consistent way).

This system makes the conversions fast, and tends to work okay. Sometimes, I'll jigger things a little bit to make sure the character/creature "feels" right, but that's highly subjective, and needs to be done to individual taste.

Spells, I'll just find the closest equivalents I can, and if it's something that doesn't even exist in TFT, I'll either make something up (if it's really important) or ignore it.

Talents, the same as Spells.

Magic Items and stuff, the same as Spells.

Advantages and disadvantages, I pretty much ignore, unless they translate well into some TFT Talent or Spell. Most of them would fall more under the "reaction rolls" section of ITL anyway, and should be noted in that regard instead, though even there it's probably best to just note that the character receives a plus or minus to his reaction rolls due to poor personal hygiene or something...

Like I said, the lazy man's way of doing things, but it works well enough and gives me results generally fairly close to what the GURPS module or splat book is indicating, without spending a week converting things.

(Which is not to knock Skarg's or Jim's thoughts on this -- they are absolutely correct in pretty much everything they said, it's just that I'm really lazy (did I mention that before?) and I find this "close enough" to work without burning neurons on the math that would really be required to get an exact equivalence.)

Last edited by JLV; 06-11-2018 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:09 PM   #5
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

I think the best you can do is identify your GURPS character's top 3 or 4 or 5 core competencies, and then build a TFT character with those same competencies, but not substantially more. So, if you fight with a long blow and short sword, are good at climbing and sneaking, and lead a band of bandits, you'll need at least ST 11, should have Sword, Bow, Climbing, Move Silent and perhaps Spy talents, and probably New Followers and/or Charisma and/or Tactics. Those will force your IQ to be some value on the order of 14 or 15. And your DX should be set to loosely reflect your GURPS character's skill level with weapons and sneaking. The odds are you will settle on something between 12 and 15. Thus, your Robinhood sort of character needs about 38-40 points and 6-8 talents to describe correctly in TFT.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:53 PM   #6
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
... (Which is not to knock Skarg's or Jim's thoughts on this -- they are absolutely correct in pretty much everything they said, it's just that I'm really lazy (did I mention that before?) and I find this "close enough" to work without burning neurons on the math that would really be required to get an exact equivalence.)
Well your method is pretty much the same as my method. I just mentioned some other considerations.

Of course, the easiest way, which I'd also be tempted to do for many characters, is sort of not convert them, and just use the GURPS stats in TFT.

ST or HT is how much damage they can take.

DX is their DX, and IQ their IQ, except when using one of their skills, use that number instead.

Seems to me that pretty much works better in many ways than converting them to TFT anyway.

The main issue is that some GURPS have characters with quite high skills by TFT standards.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:54 PM   #7
JLV
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

That last is all too true -- and happens because in GURPS Steve de-coupled skills from IQ "slots."

Doing something similar in TFT would actually make a lot of sense...
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:08 PM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Oh, and I might translate what weapon a fighter has based on their GURPS ST, possibly approximately as follows:

GURPS ST/weapon to TFT ST/weapon:
8-9 / sword -> 9/rapier
10 / sword -> 10/cutlass or 11/shortsword
11+ / shortsword -> 11+/shortsword
11+ / broadsword -> 12+/broadsword
11+ / bastardsword -> 12/broadsword or 13+/bastardsword
12 / greatsword -> 13/bastardsword
13 / greatsword -> 14/2-handed sword
14+ / greatsword -> 16+/greatsword

8-9 / hatchet -> 9/hatchet
10 / hatchet -> 10/hammer
11 / axe -> 11/smallaxe
12 / axe -> 11/smallaxe or 12/military pick
13+ / axe -> 13+/morningstar
10 / mace -> 10/hammer
10-11 / small mace -> 11/mace
12 / mace -> 12/military pick or 11/mace
10 / pick -> 10/hammer or 12/military pick
11-12 / pick -> 12/military pick
13+ / mace/pick -> 13+/morningstar
12+ / morningstar -> 13+/morningstar

12 / greataxe -> 14 great hammer
13+ greataxe -> 15+ battleaxe
12-13 / warhammer/maul/flail -> 14 great hammer
14+ / warhammer/maul/flail -> 15+ battleaxe

6-11 / javelin -> 9-11/javelin
12+ / javelin -> 11+/spear
11 -14 / spear -> 11-14/spear
11 / glaive -> 11/spear
12/polearm -> 12/new polearm 2d-1 minST12
13/polearm -> 13/halberd
14/polearm -> 14new polearm 2d+1 minST14
15+/polearm -> 15/pikeaxe

10-14 crossbow -> 10-14 light crossbow
15+ crossbow -> 15+ heavy crossbow
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:58 PM   #9
Jim Kane
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Unless you are just going for "really really fudgey", you should also know that the basic bare-hand damage scales are also completely different between the two system; whereas the value of "1" in both systems is totally different:

TFT: ST-10 (1-3)...ST-20 (1+1); providing a max range of 3 to 7.

GURPS: ST-10 (1-2)...ST-20 (2-1); providing a max range of 4 to 11.

Think of it this way if it helps, the value of "1" in TFT is stated in Kilometers, and value of "1" in GURPS is stated in Miles.

Without getting into the actual math that no one wants to see anyway, take my word on it, the scales are different and do not directly translate. The GURPS characters are "larger" - pound for pound, unit for unit - than the TFT figures of the same attribute values.

And add weapon damage, only makes the discrepancy between the scales more apparent.

But hey, do what you like and "Fight on!"... oh, that's from another game where the characters are on totally different scale too ;-D

JK
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"A magical healing system, if overly efficient in it's effects, will reduce the frequency and intensity of game-tension and drama, in direct proportion to that overage of efficiency." - JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-11-2018 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:30 PM   #10
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Converting GURPS characters to TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Without getting into the actual math that no one wants to see anyway, take my word on it, the scales are different and do not directly translate. The GURPS characters are "larger" - pound for pound, unit for unit - than the TFT figures of the same attribute values.
That's sort of true. The above are all quick & dirty rather than trying to be really accurate.

Looking to be more accurate, I think one would notice that:

* The average attribute value for non-hero normal folk is theoretically 10 (Edit: I meant to say, in both GURPS and TFT).

* If we were to look for a scaling factor, I'd therefore apply it to the distance from 10, not the distance from 0.

* Attributes for experienced people get much higher in TFT than in GURPS. In GURPS, 16 is an extreme attribute value, and 18-20 is getting ridiculous.

* Skills though tend to be higher in GURPS than what I'd tend to give the same person in DX or IQ if converted to TFT.

Last edited by Skarg; 06-12-2018 at 12:22 AM.
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