Languages when you are mute but not deaf...

[Ragabash Moon]

The rules for languages say that if you are mute or deaf then you get SPOKEN sign language and one other language WRITTEN for free...

Seems to me that works fine... if you are DEAF. But if you can hear, shouldn't you technically have to know how to 'speak" the language even if you physically can't, or does one just assume that since you don't have DEAF you can understand the language even though you only have "written", since you can't physically speak it, no need to PAY for the ability to do the impossible?

Not to mention the ability to "lip-sync" if the person you want to "talk" to can read lips... :P

[Fnord-Fnairlane]

My opinions on languages for various disad states.

Case 1: Deaf

It's pretty clear that you can have full use of a written language. I'd run the spoken language as the language that you are familiar with for lip reading purposes. I'd alllow it to be optional, if for some reason you've never been taught to lip read, you could take a 3 point disad. The difficulties implicit in lip reading compared to using your ears are included in the Deaf disad.

Case 2: Mute

Again, you obviously can use a written language. Also, you can understand a spoken language. Being unable to speak the language you aurally understand is implicit in being Mute, you can't take an extra disad. A generous disad would make sign language cheap.

Case 3: Blind

Read: Brail. Speak / hear: normal

Case 27: Deaf, Blind, Mute

Written language would be brail. Spoken language would be "finger talking"

[GaiusT]

Ragabash,

As you should know, I am deaf. No kidding, man... I wear a hearing aid every single day and have on my own glasses. The thing is, there are so many different deaf people out there that I've seen. Well, I count only a few I've been in close contact before but I do acknowledge there are unlimited possibilities of what deaf people can do or cannot do...

To tell you, I do lip-read because I teach myself how to. I am quite excellent at it, no doubt. But I do not have the sign language skills (ASL, SEE, etc., etc.) to communicate to other deaf people, which is a bummer but not any more worrisome than it is being deaf.

To surprise you on how I'm deaf, Ragabash, I do speak English quite well, write fluently, but there is a downside. People could tell the difference if I am deaf or not, no question! If I were to impersonate as a police officer, (Not that I would do) people are going to wonder why a deaf person is a police officer? The only way they can tell the difference is not from my hearing aid slightly obscured behind my ear but my own voice.

To tell you the truth, Raga, you should not only look at the Language skills but how occupations can affect one GURPS character. For instance, I cannot join the military or police because I cannot participate in combat or duties that require sharp coordination of the eyes and ears. Sure, I can hear well but nowhere to the point any of you hearing people can do.

Also, try to look a bit more into social background... Some deaf people may not be social and more aggressive than others; some others are laidback, experienced, or any average deaf person who's struggling out in the real world trying to make ends meet (bills to pay, etc.), having a social life...

Just broaden the concept if you are considering a deaf character... as for mute, I would consider the mute to know the written language but can only hear the spoken.

I hope this helps, Ragabash!

GaiusT

P.S. even if none of this is relevant to what you're asking. :)

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by GaiusT

Ragabash,

As you should know, I am deaf. No kidding, man... I wear a hearing aid every single day and have on my own glasses. The thing is, there are so many different deaf people out there that I've seen. Well, I count only a few I've been in close contact before but I do acknowledge there are unlimited possibilities of what deaf people can do or cannot do...

Oh I know what you mean, there was a "gladiator" on American Gladiators (Siren was her name) that went deaf when she was 5 years old, she went through a couple of episodes before the producers figured out she was deaf because she was getting trampled when they put her on the ending obstacle course (the contestants burst through a paper wall and the gladiator has to delay them for as long as possible) because she didn't hear them running up, so wasn't ready for them. After that they installed pressure plates in the floors to turn on a light for her. They did an interview with her the next episode about her deafness, and you could NOT tell she was deaf just from her voice, and her "reason" for being deaf was she got into the medicine cabinet when she was 5 years old and O'ded on asprin. :( Also after they figured it out, they made sure they always looked at her when they were talking to her.

Anyway, as to my question, I am wondering about how to do the "free" languages that one gets for being deaf or mute. I have no problem with giving her "free" sign language and "free" written english, then making her pay for spoken english, or whatever... I'm just looking for how it's intended rules wise.. since she CAN hear just fine... it's that she can't SPEAK.

EDIT: Also I might add that at time of "entering play" the character was 19 years old, but she lost her voice due to damage (slit throat to be exact, only reason she survived was regeneration) when she was 14. So, if you were to make her at 14, THEN give her mute in play, that would be diff, but I'm makin' her at 19, 5 years after she became mute...

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Seems to me that works fine... if you are DEAF. But if you can hear, shouldn't you technically have to know how to 'speak" the language even if you physically can't, or does one just assume that since you don't have DEAF you can understand the language even though you only have "written", since you can't physically speak it, no need to PAY for the ability to do the impossible?

IMC...

If they've learned to understand (frex) english, they pay full cost for "spoken". The penalty of not being able to actually speak it is covered by having Mute. Deaf characters born deaf can easily justify having no "spoken" comprehension on English or other verbal languages, but they still get the -3 points for having no comprehension as that indicates they can't lipread it and they can't even try to speak it.

However, I'd probably prevent a Deaf character from *speaking* any better than Accented, and many don't progress beyond "Broken" as far as clarity of speach. Nothing wrong with grammar, just that enunciation is very hard if you have no idea what you're aiming for.

Sign languages are "spoken only" languages available to any character; they'll make the life of a Mute or Deaf character easier, but aren't automatic. OTOH, buying your "native" spoken language down to None and buying up your sign language of choice up ot Native conveniently nets out to 0 points. I wouldn't count the -3 points against a Deaf character's disad limit, if I were enforcing a disad limit at all.

Lipreading is also not an automatic skill for Deaf characters. It's a good support skill and offsets the disadvantage of Deaf (good idea to spend some of those points you got from Deaf on it, frex). but it isn't automatic and they shouldn't get a discount on it.

[Sense of Duty (Kittens)]

According to my research on deaf related topics, lipreading at best gleans about forty percent of language data, for English anyway. The rules regarding lipreading don't cover that very well.

Geture is also a wise choice for deaf and or mute characters.

[Ragabash Moon]

Ok I'm more confused now that I was when I asked the question...

[Amy]

Originally Posted by GaiusT

Ragabash,

As you should know, I am deaf. No kidding, man... I wear a hearing aid every single day and have on my own glasses. The thing is, there are so many different deaf people out there that I've seen. Well, I count only a few I've been in close contact before but I do acknowledge there are unlimited possibilities of what deaf people can do or cannot do...

To tell you, I do lip-read because I teach myself how to. I am quite excellent at it, no doubt. But I do not have the sign language skills (ASL, SEE, etc., etc.) to communicate to other deaf people, which is a bummer but not any more worrisome than it is being deaf.

To surprise you on how I'm deaf, Ragabash, I do speak English quite well, write fluently, but there is a downside. People could tell the difference if I am deaf or not, no question! If I were to impersonate as a police officer, (Not that I would do) people are going to wonder why a deaf person is a police officer? The only way they can tell the difference is not from my hearing aid slightly obscured behind my ear but my own voice.

To tell you the truth, Raga, you should not only look at the Language skills but how occupations can affect one GURPS character. For instance, I cannot join the military or police because I cannot participate in combat or duties that require sharp coordination of the eyes and ears. Sure, I can hear well but nowhere to the point any of you hearing people can do.

Also, try to look a bit more into social background... Some deaf people may not be social and more aggressive than others; some others are laidback, experienced, or any average deaf person who's struggling out in the real world trying to make ends meet (bills to pay, etc.), having a social life...

Just broaden the concept if you are considering a deaf character... as for mute, I would consider the mute to know the written language but can only hear the spoken.

I hope this helps, Ragabash!

GaiusT

P.S. even if none of this is relevant to what you're asking. :)

I'd call what you've described as a -10% to your deafness disad. for the hearing aids. My father was very hard of hearing and wouldn't wear hearing aids. I can't judge how loud I'm talking, as Scott knows all to well. :)
The phone company back in the 60s put in a booster ball on the phone so dad could hear it, the volume is at the pain level. If that phone rang 3 times no one was home because every was diving for the phone to make it stop.

[Ragabash Moon]

I guess the easiest way to do it is just ignore the "rules" for deaf and mute characters as not making much sense for someone that isn't deaf, and just figure her with BUYING sign language. Less confusion that way.

Just hate paying points for something I don't have to... that's why I'm tryin' to figure out how this works in her case...

[Rendu]

Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane

My opinions on languages for various disad states.

[[/indent]Case 3: Blind

Read: Brail. Speak / hear: normal

Case 27: Deaf, Blind, Mute

Written language would be brail. Spoken language would be "finger talking"

Nit-picks: Braille is not a language, it is an alphabet. You would still need written proficiency in English, French, whatever to read it. Likewise, you need written proficiency for finger-spelling. Furthermore, there are different systems of finger-spelling which would be separate skills.