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Old 04-12-2018, 04:12 PM   #1
Jeminai
 
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Default Making Bank with Earth to Stone

I had a group of adventurers in a fantasy setting traipsing through a dungeon. They got in some trouble and decided that it would be better to close off the main tunnel entrance into this particular dungeon than to allow whatever was in there to get out.

They found a constriction in the tunnels where the passage way was about 5 feet high by about 3 feet wide. They brought some earth down into the tunnel and began forming up a dirt plug about 3 feet thick. They took their time and made sure that the dirt was floor-to-roof and wall-to-wall. They even chipped away at the surrounding stone so some of the dirt would go into the rock.

The wizard's original plan was to cast Earth to Stone but when he read the spell he realized he could make this a solid iron barrier. We rounded everything up and decided that the earthen plug was 2 cubic yards (5' tall x 3' wide x 3' thick) for the sake of the spell's fatigue cost.

Roll a few dice and *POOF* Iron plug.

After this, the players began talking about using this spell to make steel for armor and weapons, the wizard (improvising and trying to not make the spell an easy way for his warriors to make an easy buck by selling steel to the smithy) said, "Steel is a very complex alloy with many valuable properties from each of its component parts. If I could have made the earthen plug into steel, of course I would have because of its superior strength. I was able to create iron because it is a naturally found mineral of Earth and falls into the domain of Earthen spells."

(I thought this was a nice piece of role playing and improvisation but it sent me into a panic)

The other players all stopped talking and slowly turned to me (their GM) with a questioning look. The player of the wizard had a look of true regret.

Then one of the other players said, "Aren't gold and silver natural minerals of the earth?"

The dwarf stated, "Aye, and platinum as well!"

So there is my dilemma. Any suggestions?
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:19 PM   #2
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

Earth to Stone used for making metal is indeed a problem. As a stop-gap, you might want to have it that when used to create noble metals (gold, silver, platinum), the results do not last. Passing false gold, like this would be, is the sort of thing that the King's Guard (and the Merchants' Guilds) take Very Seriously.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:24 PM   #3
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

  • Metal created that was a magical aura that can be detected and are considered counterfeit
  • Such metal may attract demons and maical energies, perhaps Elder Things
  • Wizard and other guilds are of ourse aware that mages can do this but know that t could wreck the worlds economy so come down HARD on anyone found out to try this.
  • The Gods get angry at this for any of the above reasons or just prefer natural earth and consider created metals blashpmey
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeminai View Post
So there is my dilemma. Any suggestions?
Yes -- change the spell. A number of Earth spells have grossly excessive effects relative to what they do, mostly because a hex of earth is a huge amount.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #5
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Yes -- change the spell. A number of Earth spells have grossly excessive effects relative to what they do, mostly because a hex of earth is a huge amount.
FYI there is RAW support for this. Pyramid had an issue where Kromm posited a 24 hour duration for these spells IIRC
Looked it up.
Pyramid 3/60 page 6 under the heading One-Day Guarantee.
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Last edited by Refplace; 04-12-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
FYI there is RAW support for this. Pyramid had an issue where Kromm posited a 24 hour duration for these spells IIRC
Also in DFRPG. Create Earth and Earth to Stone are given 24 hour duration.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

I'd say that the "inherent value" of the rare metals is vastly greater than common iron. It's possible, but (and here you do some math), it's easier and cheaper to pay for a pound of copper to be mined than it is to pay a wizard to make it. The rarer metals have even higher bonus energy costs.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #8
Railstar
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

The spell description says it turns an item of stone into a simple metal like bronze or iron.

To me the bronze part tells me the spell interprets "simple" differently to our modern understanding of chemistry. Bronze is fine but steel isn't, even though bronze is also an alloy (though perhaps the difference is because steel is part carbon and carbon isn't a metal?).

I'd recommend using alchemy for your inspiration rather than chemistry. Say that gold is a "noble metal" rather than a "base metal" such as iron.

Overall, I would allow iron to be made for making weapons and armour from, but it would run into limitations...

-raw materials isn't necessarily the most expensive step, so might not save that much money overall. Or if they do the work then it just saves some costs for building equipment from scratch using their skills.

-trying to shape something from earth or clay then transmuting it to iron would massively change the balance, making spell-made weapons poorly balanced by default.

-smiths pay less for spell-made iron ingots, first because it can be dispelled or otherwise reversed, and secondly because they don't want to suddenly ditch their suppliers.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:32 PM   #9
clu2415
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

Businesspeople who find out you can do this will be very interested in having a monopoly on your output. Some businesspeople will find that producing precious metals out of nowhere will undermine their control of wealth generation in the area and will be willing to pay you to not exercise your newfound skills.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:36 PM   #10
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Making Bank with Earth to Stone

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Originally Posted by clu2415 View Post
Some businesspeople... will be willing to pay you to not exercise your newfound skills.
Pay? Heh, heh. Well, that's one way to try to make sure the mage doesn't exercise his newfound skill. But there's at least one other way to make sure, that's both cheaper and more reliable...
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