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Old 09-09-2020, 10:08 AM   #11
A Ladder
 
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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It looks like the party will be without a cleric. I'm running Deep Night and the Star first - are clerics strictly necessary? I may have to add a henchman - or just have the first character that dies make a cleric.
I've run a bunch of DF inspired fantasy campaigns and I think we've had a total of maybe 2 "healer" types.
In the cases where the party was without a healer I just gave them a henchman that healed. It quickly became a running gag that the healer henchmen would eventually die and I'd have to replace it with another one. Each iteration would have more and more weird quirks going on for them.

I think it is a TERRIBLE idea to make someone create a character type that they don't want to play if they die.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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I think it is a TERRIBLE idea to make someone create a character type that they don't want to play if they die.
I agree. I see a few options:

Expand the clerical spell list. Often, the real complaint isn't "healing is boring" but "not devastating the countryside with magic is boring." Invent a bunch of gods. For each, add the spells of one college other than Healing and Protection and Warning. For instance, if the God of Fire gives all Fire spells, distributed fairly from PI1 to PI6, people are more likely to find clerics cool.

Offer extra points as an incentive. Players can be bribed. Those who claim to hate to play clerics may hate that less if they get, say, a free 20 points in combat skills due to belonging to a "fighting order," or a free +1 to IQ because they're part of a learned "monastic order."

Hand out extra stuff as an incentive. As above, but now it's a suit of plate armor or a full range of holy gear.

Add an NPC healer. Hardly a stretch! Temples always need favors. They can exchange healing for these . . . and dispatch a cleric to oversee their interests. Just avoid the temptation to make this cleric a burden; go with a solidly built 250-point delver.
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

I'll put an NPC Cleric in the party if no one wants to play one. They are playing in Nordlond, so there are plenty of strange gods to go around.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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I'll put an NPC Cleric in the party if no one wants to play one. They are playing in Nordlond, so there are plenty of strange gods to go around.
Given the ability for Clerics to buy Holy Abilities, an expanded "to the pain" level of purchasable powers akin to the two-per-domain done in Hand of Asgard would probably help folks have more to do.

Hmmm...
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Old 09-09-2020, 03:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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  • Allow druids to use healing spells. (Especially if I don't think anyone is interesting in making a cleric in the future.) See this thread for a discussion of this option. You could extend this to other casters, too, if desired
This may be a good general suggestion, but its a bad fit for Deep Night and the Star. Druids have a hefty penalty in that adventure.
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

The basic problem is that being a healer is good for -- helping other people have fun. Now, that's not a bad thing, but it really shouldn't be a significant tradeoff against your own ability to have fun.
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Old 09-09-2020, 08:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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This may be a good general suggestion, but its a bad fit for Deep Night and the Star. Druids have a hefty penalty in that adventure.
Yeah, I have strongly advised against playing a Druid in this adventure.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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The basic problem is that being a healer is good for -- helping other people have fun. Now, that's not a bad thing, but it really shouldn't be a significant tradeoff against your own ability to have fun.
Sounds right. I suppose clerical healing could be jazzed up by making it more complex – say, potentially more powerful, but requiring the cleric to beat some difficulty target, possibly work in some complementary rolls, maybe make a petition to the gods for further effects, etc. etc. – but I don't know that that'd be fun.

Some players really like quietly helping others from the sidelines, and enjoy playing cleric PCs. For players who want more action, allowing more powerful combat spells is of course a good idea – or making existing clerical spells more potent in combat. Hm, here's a quick idea that'd require no modification to the profession, and nearly zero GM effort:

DFRPG has a few monsters that are damaged by healing spells. Expand that to lots of undead, demons, and other unholy abominations. Clerics can now use their boring ol' healing spells to righteously smite a wide range of uglies. (I don't think this would upstage other damage dealers; the cleric's FP cost is high. If anything, healing's "damage" vs monsters might need to be boosted to make it worth the FP cost.)
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

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Given the ability for Clerics to buy Holy Abilities, an expanded "to the pain" level of purchasable powers akin to the two-per-domain done in Hand of Asgard would probably help folks have more to do.
Alternately, just say Clerical Investiture (God of Healing) 1 allows a broader range of healing spells than PI1 does for general clerics, let anybody take it with 5 healing spells (at IQ-1) for [15] and voila, any class with a decent IQ (Bard, Druid, Thief or Wizard) can be a useful healing cleric on a budget you can probably squeeze out without sacrificing anything really core to the original class.

Yeah your clericalness for any other purpose is basically zero, but no big loss. Add a point of Diagnosis, Esoteric Medicine, Pharmacy (Herbal) and another couple skills or spells, and call it a 20 point Lay Healer or Wise Woman Lens and it doesn't even feel like a pure game mechanical hack anymore.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Looks like the party will be without a cleric

And I've made the cleric! A bloodthirsty halfling from the Neveri plains. Fights with a falchion and a composite bow and rides a war goose (the size of a small horse). Worships the god of the sky and the hunt.

In my campaign world the Neveri plains are filled with roaming flocks of large birds that fill the same niches as ungulates (cattle, ovines). The war-geese are the equivalent of horses. They are flightless, very large and can be very aggressive. Perfect for a halfling nomadic culture.
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