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Old 04-29-2019, 12:37 AM   #11
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

I think that indeed this:
Quote:
A player may change the facing of a figure whenever it moves
Means that while the figure forcing retreat can choose which (more-distant) hex the retreated figure retreats to, it also qualifies the retreated figure to choose a new facing in that hex.

This is also consistent with the other rules that allow a figure to move a hex outside the movement phase (e.g. when retreating from a Push, or when rolling out from under a larger figure, or when disengaging from HTH).

It's also very easy, and often doesn't matter (but sometimes can, because it can determine who that figure engages, and who might be able to jump the retreated figure in HTH, during the upcoming movement phase).
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:48 AM   #12
JLV
 
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Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I think that indeed this:

Means that while the figure forcing retreat can choose which (more-distant) hex the retreated figure retreats to, it also qualifies the retreated figure to choose a new facing in that hex.

This is also consistent with the other rules that allow a figure to move a hex outside the movement phase (e.g. when retreating from a Push, or when rolling out from under a larger figure, or when disengaging from HTH).

It's also very easy, and often doesn't matter (but sometimes can, because it can determine who that figure engages, and who might be able to jump the retreated figure in HTH, during the upcoming movement phase).
Yeah, this was the way we always played it -- figuring that the character being forced to retreat was being "forced" to by the tactical situation more than anything else. Physical Knockback (or knock down) is an entirely different issue of course.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:41 AM   #13
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

It is hard to say what the author's intent was, but the best argument I've seen in this thread is for a uniform rule that the player controlling the figure that moved picks the facing at the end of its movement. It's consistent with stated rules for broadly similar circumstances and I don't believe it violates a clearly stated rule for a similar circumstance. Plus it's straightforward to always do the same thing.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:14 PM   #14
KevinJ
 
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Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

I can't find anywhere in the rules where the attacker can choose the facing of the defended forced to retreat, nor the side/rear hex they retreat into.

And interesting idea would be allowing the better 'swordsman' to choose which hex the defender retreats into. Thus a character with Expertise or Master (Fencer or Master Fencer) could herd a less skilled opponent. This could have tactical implications by forcing a gap in a formation allowing a flanking attack.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:50 PM   #15
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
but what if they weren't facing the Attacker?
A reasonable point -- but they might just want to face the source of that attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
the best argument I've seen in this thread is for a uniform rule that the player controlling the figure that moved picks the facing
Probably my favorite. Forcing a retreat isn't mind control, after all, just footwork. If the owning player can eke out some advantage from facing, good for him. Maybe he wants to face his attacker, or maybe there's another attacker he considers yet more threatening that he'd rather keep facing. He still got pushed away from the hex he wanted to be in, which can have important tactical consequences. And if he can really turn it into some net benefit -- well, that's an error on the part of the attacker for having forced the retreat in the first place.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:57 PM   #16
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

The flip side to this argument is that real historical fencing, which operated in an open space rather than a modern fencing strip, puts a lot of focus on working your way into positions that are effectively equivalent to attacking through a side facing in TFT. This would be possible if combatants who were forced to retreat were not allowed to change their facing as they do so. But, most clever thoughts about versimilitude make for terrible games. So, I don't advocate this sort of thing.
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:13 AM   #17
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The flip side to this argument is that real historical fencing, which operated in an open space rather than a modern fencing strip, puts a lot of focus on working your way into positions that are effectively equivalent to attacking through a side facing in TFT. This would be possible if combatants who were forced to retreat were not allowed to change their facing as they do so. But, most clever thoughts about versimilitude make for terrible games. So, I don't advocate this sort of thing.
A counter-counterpoint to that idea is that it would never allow an attack from the side or rear, since the only effect of facing would be on who is engaged or not at the start of the movement phase, during which everyone gets to move and pick facing again before any attacks occur.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:54 AM   #18
randiv
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

It does not reflect well on this re-release that something this basic and ordinary to combat is so ill-defined. This is not some rare circumstance. It ought to be clearly defined in the rules.

There is 30 years of experience with this system for this sort of issue to be known. Why wasn't this ambiguity dealt with? I find this disheartening.

If this was the only ambiguity it might be forgiveable, but the forum is loaded with similar problems. They can all be fixed by house rules, and in 1979 I was fine with that -- fewer issues than D&D of that era -- but I expect a little more coherence these days.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:15 AM   #19
JLV
 
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Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

I don't think this issue was ever actually an issue in any game I ever played. We assumed that forced retreat was not "turning around and running away" but rather was "backing up." (Which seems to be the clear intent of the rule.) Based on that, the figure's facing remained what it was before the retreat was forced. Therefore, there wasn't any need to overanalyze the situation.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:25 PM   #20
RobW
 
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Default Re: Question About Facing After Retreat

Yeah, I think I put my post in the wrong retreat thread, it wasnít about facing but about interesting options for retreat spaces. Iíll delete if poss and try to find a better spot.
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