How much ST can you emulate with Control?

[Charleson Mambo]

If you use Control [water] (for example) to make a column of water that lifts an object, how much can you lift? In other words what is the effective ST of the water you're controlling?


Charleson Mambo

[naloth]

I asked a similar question a while ago and you can reverse calculate the HP of water based on weight based on the formula in Campaigns for homogenous substances. I'ld use this as the ST as well since it's the "pushing power" you can direct.

TK is usually more point effective, though.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Charleson Mambo

If you use Control [water] (for example) to make a column of water that lifts an object, how much can you lift? In other words what is the effective ST of the water you're controlling?

Note: Control is not the same as Telekinesis, and is not really intended to be used as a replacement for it (as per the text on p91 of Powers). That said, it's not unreasonable to allow for some additional mass (not of the controlled element) to be moved appropriately. For Water, I would suppose that should mean that the object to be lifted must float, and should mass no more than the mass of the controlled volume (of water). This would imply that its dimensions, along the plane in which it would float, should not exceed those of the controlled volume, nor should its draft exceed the height of that volume.

Control of a solid will allow more leeway (the solid probably should be able to hold larger volumes, as long as it can balance upon the surface of the controlled element). This still should not allow for lifting masses greater than that implied by what I assume for Control(Water), and the text seems to imply that any such motion would be slower [for a solid, compared to a liquid].

To your question about effective lifting ST: Noting that the description of Control does not really cover this, and that the distinction between this ad and TK is made: I'd say it should be constrained to an amount no more than the mass of the controlled element, and should in fact be much less than that in ordinary situations. Perhaps a good rule of thumb might be that a lifted mass should not exceed 10% of the mass of the maximum volume the character can control. This would allow for lifting items that had a comparitively negligible weight [similar to the relation between what could be carried w/o encumbrance (BL) to maximum (extra-heavy) encumbrance].

All JMO, of course ;)

[naloth]

Here was my particular question:
Slam w/control which seems to establish "pushing power" in my mind...

To Shrubbery's point, it's not TK. I'ld limit you to pushing other things around (equivalent to No Manipulators).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by naloth

Here was my particular question:
Slam w/control which seems to establish "pushing power" in my mind...

To Shrubbery's point, it's not TK. I'ld limit you to pushing other things around (equivalent to No Manipulators).

Thanks, naloth. I was going to ask you for that link (I must have missed that thread the first time around).

I'd agree with limiting Control to just pushing, as a ruling. It better fits my general policy ("No more than the rules explicitly allow"). AIS, though, I don't think that allowing for some lifting strength is unreasonable... It just should not become a major aspect of the power, IMO.

[Charleson Mambo]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I'm thinking that for fine manipulation TK is the way to go, but some simple lifting and shoving should fall within the abilities of Control.

Gases: if the objects is not just light, but has a large surface area, then it should be possible for it to be carried by the "wind".

Liquids: If the object will float, then it should bob on top of the 'column', and its weight subtracted from the amount of liquid that can be controlled.

Solids: Again, subtract the object's weight from the total weight of the controllable substance.

No fine control, like you're trying to lift an object with one hand, and that hand in a large padded mitt as big as a large pillow. (ie serious penalties to keep it balanced.)

What do you think? Is this alright or too much?


Charleson Mambo