How are you handling stealth in combat?

[Tenex]

In the description it says you can evade even close pursuit on a 4d roll. One cited possibility for escaping pursuit is a "wide spot". So it seems the intent is to allow the disappearance of the character even under close observation and with poor hiding opportunities.

I don't think the description allows for hiding while under direct observation, but it seems to allow for hiding if even momentarily out of view. And it seems like it allows for hiding from someone who passes only a few feet away in close pursuit.

This seems to make it applicable in combat. If a foe turned away to a side hex, and certainly to a rear hex, it seems the character could be allowed to make a roll.

Would you allow a character to fire a missile weapon and then use stealth to disappear as long as they weren't under direct observation? For instance, a multi-hex foe is fighting the PCs and a character to the side in a shadowed area fires an arrow. The foe turns to look at where the arrow came from, but the character makes the stealth roll and disappears.

I wouldn't make it invisibility, but I was thinking of making the stealthed character Blurred (-4 DX attacks) if they made continued 4d DX rolls during combat and they were at least 3 mega hexes away from the target.

Thoughts?

[larsdangly]

I would use simple principles of 'line of sight' for this sort of tactical situation. If you can move your figure to a hex that has an obstructed view, or crouch or lie down to achieve an obstructed view behind some large object, then you are out of sight. Otherwise, you are in sight. The grey zone is that you might someone use a stealth talent to have some ambiguous case counted as obstructing line of sight (like, brush or a curtain or whatever).

[Tenex]

Not to make this too D&Dish, but I'm inclined to also allow it in shadows. That's what made me start to think about calling the figure blurred.

[larsdangly]

No special ability or power is required to simulate 'hide in shadows' in melee. Shadow hexes obscure vision; all you have to do is stipulate which hexes on a tactical map are 'shadowed' and the rules take care of the rest.

[Tenex]

Well, I'm thinking of real shadows, not magical shadows. Per the rules, "a figure inside a shadow can see nothing", but that relates to a magical shadow hex. I'm talking about mundane shadows. The kind where you can see out into the light far easier than someone in the light can see in.

[Tenex]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

The grey zone is that you might someone use a stealth talent to have some ambiguous case counted as obstructing line of sight (like, brush or a curtain or whatever).

Yes, it's precisely this grey zone that I am curious about.

[Skarg]

Even without the talent, if/when someone in combat goes unobserved by the enemy somehow, I:

* Roleplay the NPCs' awareness of where other figures are, occasionally rolling vs. IQ to see how well they have kept track of figures who may have escaped their attention.

* Apply similar ideas for the PCs' awareness, sometimes removing enemy figures from the map whom they have not kept awareness of.

Using a talent would help, but I would apply the situation and common sense so it's not a D&D-like "you have a magic power that lets you vanish in plain sight" or anything close. If someone's chasing an opponent and the opponent tries to duck around a corner and stop, I'd give the opponent what I thought was the appropriate level of opportunity to check corners he came to after the foe he was chasing went out of sight, to notice the footsteps stopped, etc.

[larsdangly]

This shouldn't require that much in the way of judgement calls. TFT is played on a tactical map where everyone's location and orientation is defined at all times. I'd say there are only three situations that can arise, only one of which might call for a die roll:

1) Target is totally unobstructed and can be seen through a front facing: no way on earth you can 'hide'
2) Target is totally obstructed or only reachable through a side or rear hex side: no way on earth you can be seen (at least in that moment)
3) Target can be observed through a front hex side but is partially obstructed (by a barrier, natural shadow, whatever). This case is not covered in the rules but could be reasonably modeled by saying if you don't move and succeed at a stealth check you are functionally invisible until you move or are observed from some different orientation.

[Tenex]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

3) Target can be observed through a front hex side but is partially obstructed (by a barrier, natural shadow, whatever). This case is not covered in the rules but could be reasonably modeled by saying if you don't move and succeed at a stealth check you are functionally invisible until you move or are observed from some different orientation.

I agree with 1 and 2. Those are the clear cut situations. So from ITL:

"(f) MISSILE WEAPON ATTACK. Move up to l hex and... fire a missile weapon... (h) CAST SPELL. Move one hex... and attempt any spell."

So it is possible to attack and engage in minimal movement. If you are in a good hiding spot, i.e. one you have previously successfully made a stealth roll in, could you shoot an arrow and then make a stealth roll to be "invisible" when the targeted creature turns to look your way? You wouldn't be moving from a "good" spot where you achieved earlier success. You would just be reapplying your skill to freeze as the targeted creature looked your way. I'm inclined to say yes, although if the targeted creature moved in your direction that would necessitate additional rolls.

To avoid this becoming too powerful and too much like invisibility I was thinking maybe the targeted creature could attack (if it had a ranged attack), but at a discount like you were blurred. The targeted creature clearly knows something is where you are, but can't see precisely due to your hiding in shadows, vegetation, whatever.

[hcobb]

The classic movie trope for this is to duck down an alleyway just before your pursers turn the corner.