Question: Off-Hand Striking

elaxter · 11-09-2017, 11:28 PM

So I'm looking over the Basic Set and I'm wondering:

Do punches receive the -4 for using the off-hand? Reading the descriptions for Brawling, Boxing, and Karate seem to imply that using Karate has no penalty. However, the description for Off-Hand Weapon Training only lists Melee Weapon skills as a valid specialization.

So which is it? -4 or no?

sir_pudding · 11-09-2017, 11:41 PM

By default no, there is an optional rule in GURPS Martial Arts, however.

vicky_molokh · 11-12-2017, 04:05 AM

I'm just gonna leave this here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Just to be clear: There is no "off" hand in unarmed combat in GURPS. The Basic Set failed to make this as clear as it could have, hinting at it in a few skill descriptions but not generalizing it. Martial Arts makes it far clearer. Claiming that there is an "off" hand for the purposes of unarmed combat is fine as a house rule, but definitely not what the entire body of rules published to date supports.

AlexanderHowl · 11-12-2017, 07:52 AM

I agree. Unarmed combat does not suffer from off-hand penalties because there is no fine manipulation with unarmed combat. GURPS also does not give a -4 to Brawling for animals who have No Fine Manipulators, but No Fine Manipulators gives a -4 to fine manipulation.

Flyndaran · 11-12-2017, 04:58 PM

There is in real life, but Gurps uses a much more granular definition, obviously.
So, for the most part, learning Gurps' Karate teaches all such striking skills and techniques including training off side use.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 11-13-2017, 12:31 AM

It's been years since I trained in karate, and the training was only some months - But I can still punch about as proficiently with my left hand as my right. If there is a skill penalty, I can't detect it in casual testing. All of my punches, left or right, seem to go pretty much where I aim them.

The -2 ST penalty, though, seems about right.

Using a plastic Halloween sword hanging around, my left hand does seem not as nimble as my right.

Overall, it does seem reasonable - Although I'm very far from an expert.

Railstar · 11-14-2017, 12:01 PM

For my part, while I'd say I was taught to use my left as much as my right... but they weren't interchangeable. The times I use my left were heavily situational - left jabs to minimise my exposure, left hooks if they exposed that side. So maybe there was a penalty for using my left hand (I write left-handed, but use a sword more comfortably right-handed...), but it would be offset by the bonus for my left hand being in a better position to land a hit with.

So under 'normal' circumstances, using your off-hand might not deserve a penalty.

Whereas if you literally can't use your dominant hand (because grappled, crippled, or whatever reason), your off-hand doesn't get that benefit anymore, so the penalties would make more sense.

11-09-2017, 11:28 PM	#1
elaxter Join Date: Nov 2017	Question: Off-Hand Striking So I'm looking over the Basic Set and I'm wondering: Do punches receive the -4 for using the off-hand? Reading the descriptions for Brawling, Boxing, and Karate seem to imply that using Karate has no penalty. However, the description for Off-Hand Weapon Training only lists Melee Weapon skills as a valid specialization. So which is it? -4 or no?

11-09-2017, 11:41 PM	#2
sir_pudding Wielder of Smart Pants Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ventura CA	Re: Question: Off-Hand Striking By default no, there is an optional rule in *GURPS Martial Arts*, however.

11-12-2017, 07:52 AM	#4
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Question: Off-Hand Striking I agree. Unarmed combat does not suffer from off-hand penalties because there is no fine manipulation with unarmed combat. GURPS also does not give a -4 to Brawling for animals who have No Fine Manipulators, but No Fine Manipulators gives a -4 to fine manipulation.

11-12-2017, 04:58 PM	#5
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Question: Off-Hand Striking There is in real life, but Gurps uses a much more granular definition, obviously. So, for the most part, learning Gurps' Karate teaches all such striking skills and techniques including training off side use. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

11-13-2017, 12:31 AM	#6
Say, it isn't that bad! Join Date: Dec 2013	Re: Question: Off-Hand Striking It's been years since I trained in karate, and the training was only some months - But I can still punch about as proficiently with my left hand as my right. If there is a skill penalty, I can't detect it in casual testing. All of my punches, left or right, seem to go pretty much where I aim them. The -2 ST penalty, though, seems about right. Using a plastic Halloween sword hanging around, my left hand does seem not as nimble as my right. Overall, it does seem reasonable - Although I'm very far from an expert.

11-14-2017, 12:01 PM	#7
Railstar Join Date: Jul 2012	Re: Question: Off-Hand Striking For my part, while I'd say I was taught to use my left as much as my right... but they weren't interchangeable. The times I use my left were heavily situational - left jabs to minimise my exposure, left hooks if they exposed that side. So maybe there was a penalty for using my left hand (I write left-handed, but use a sword more comfortably right-handed...), but it would be offset by the bonus for my left hand being in a better position to land a hit with. So under 'normal' circumstances, using your off-hand might not deserve a penalty. Whereas if you literally can't use your dominant hand (because grappled, crippled, or whatever reason), your off-hand doesn't get that benefit anymore, so the penalties would make more sense.