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Old 05-27-2010, 03:40 PM   #11
roguebfl
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Bow isn't a melee skill. You couldn't use it to parry with the bow even if the bow were suitable for parrying.

If you had a bizarre combo weapon that could be used as a bow and also as a melee weapon, you'd probably have to switch to the melee form before you could parry with it...you might be able to benefit from Weapon Master both ways, since I think WM is by weapon, not by skill.
That was my point, while you would probe roll against Broadsword or Staff depended on how you were holding it for the actually parry the fact that you where using that Elven Longbow instead of a Real Broadsword or Quarterstaff means you get to use you Weapon Master (Bow) benefits.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post
Heroic Archer halves the penalties for Rapid Shooting (or whatever the "load and shoot in one second" ability is called). Why not let WM: Bow halve them again (to -1)?
Huh? Isn't this exactly the way it already works?
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
If access to cinematic options is one goal you could take those as Unusual Training perks and then trade them in for Weapon Master later.
Very good idea! (Assuming you don't already have Heroic Archer, of course, which also allows access to chambara stuff.)
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Bow isn't a melee skill. You couldn't use it to parry with the bow even if the bow were suitable for parrying.
No . . . but, y'know, that might not be a bad thing to add to Weapon Master. Instead of getting no parry bonus, just slide it over to a new parry "bonus" of sorts, and say that Weapon Master for a ranged weapon also allows you to use the ranged weapon skill to parry, and without automatically ruining the weapon. So if you had WM (Bow) you could parry with your bow using 1/2 Bow skill + 3, and your bow is no more likely to be ruined than if you'd parried with a melee weapon.

I'll try that out as a house rule next chance I get and see if I like it.
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Huh? Isn't this exactly the way it already works?
Indeed, but I wasn't certain if it did or not. Rather than making 9 rolls, it might work to first Fast-Draw all three arrows at once (at -6, halved to -3 for Heroic Archer or WM, halved again to -1 for Heroic Archer + WM), then make one each of the quick-ready and attack rolls. Margin of Success determines number of arrows fired for the first roll, number of hits for the second. 1 success for MoS 0, then another +1 per MoS would work.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

Parry with a bow got me to thinking of a Klingon Batlaff design that had a bow string stretched along the back.
Mind you not real practical as a real design because the string would get in the way or have to be slipped off for melee use and the metal design might not work well for streatching.
But maybe a batlaff compound bow with pullies and a catch to loosen it in a hurry and the string collapses along or into the frame?
And something like a crossbow or lever to "restring" it.

A cinematic weapon for a less civilized time.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

I've recently had a few characters with this advantage and it's definitely not balanced between ranged and melee.

I didn't realize at first, but the damage bonus is up to +2 per die, not just up to +2 as I thought. I have an archer with ST 11 that does just an extra +2. I have another character with ST 17 that is doing 5d damage swing with a fine bastard sword and weapon mastery. And that's not to mention the parrying bonus that melee gets as well. I actually felt really bad for another player that was standing on a building shooting with her bow every 3 turns doing 1d-1 damage while I was rapid striking multiple enemies, killing them both with one swing each.

I think some in house rules for this are definitely necessary.

I also feel that Bow being Hard just isn't right. I have next to no experience shooting a bow, but I bought one last year and shoot it every now and again. I can shoot a head sized target from about 6 yards away and hit it probably 80% of the time. Assuming the bow has an accuracy of 3 along with 2 extra turns aiming, that's +5 to my skill -3 for the range and -5 for the "head" and hitting at 80% would mean I'd have a raw skill of 15 or so. That's highly unlikely for a newbie bow user. I find it rather easy to shoot an aimed bow at a target 20ft away.

At the least it should be adjusted for gameplay balancing, unless I'm just missing a whole ton of crap which I probably am. I get that at range you're at less harm, but GMs don't want to kill you off anyway, so there really isn't any harm in these games.

Last edited by Boge; 06-05-2016 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
I also feel that Bow being Hard just isn't right.
Bow is Average, not Hard, so you're in luck there.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

You know the distance to the target there is a bonus for that, there is nothing at stake (no stress) there is a bonus for that, you are using modern equipment that means it counts as fine or very fine, I am sure we can drag up a few more bonuses you are missing.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
I've recently had a few characters with this advantage and it's definitely not balanced between ranged and melee.

I also feel that Bow being Hard just isn't right. I have next to no experience shooting a bow, but I bought one last year and shoot it every now and again. I can shoot a head sized target from about 6 yards away and hit it probably 80% of the time. Assuming the bow has an accuracy of 3 along with 2 extra turns aiming, that's +5 to my skill -3 for the range and -5 for the "head" and hitting at 80% would mean I'd have a raw skill of 15 or so. That's highly unlikely for a newbie bow user. I find it rather easy to shoot an aimed bow at a target 20ft away.
All out attack :+1 (you are not staying ready to dodge an attack)
no-stress :+4 (you are not in an adventuring situation)
tl8 bow : +1 for fine is likely (unless it is a cheap replica)
target at know range : +1 (after the first shot)

Possibly +1 for an high-contrast target.
Possibly +1 or more for enclosed condition (no wind, good lighting, ...)

So, skill 6-8 is enough for range shooting at 6 yards. Either default or a dabbler perk.

On adventure, your archer lose the +4 and the know range bonus, but likely still have a fine weapon if he is a weapon master, and probably a weapon bond on top.
So, to match the same 80% at 6 yard, skill 12 is needed, 13 if he is ready to dodge. Still reasonable for battle condition !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
At the least it should be adjusted for gameplay balancing, unless I'm just missing a whole ton of crap which I probably am. I get that at range you're at less harm, but GMs don't want to kill you off anyway, so there really isn't any harm in these games.
If you judge weapon efficiency on the basis that you won't be killed.. it will change the game balance a lot !

Last edited by Celjabba; 06-06-2016 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:13 AM   #20
evileeyore
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Default Re: Weapon Master (Bow) and TBM

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
I didn't realize at first, but the damage bonus is up to +2 per die, not just up to +2 as I thought. I have an archer with ST 11 that does just an extra +2. I have another character with ST 17 that is doing 5d damage swing with a fine bastard sword and weapon mastery
The respective ST scores are the most important difference there. I think you are overlooking that factor. There is nothing stopping an archer from maxing ST.

Granted they don't get swing damage, but they will still be doing a respectable amount.
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