Consequences of Racial Intuitive Mathematician and Eidetic / Photographic Memory?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

As a tangent to another thread, I would like to open up discussion of consequences of having Intuitive Mathematician and either Eidetic Memory or Photographic Memory in the racial template of a race that comprises between 5% and 25% of a given local population (the rough ration of this race grows from 5% to 25% as TL goes from roughly 6 to roughly 8-9, but looking at the lower ratio from lower TLs is interesting too).

I'm assuming that a large percentage of the race will pursue careers that at least partially utilize their talents.

Probably the biggest impact is the ability to perform some of the actions that would normally require a computer. So, what sorts of breakthroughs would become available at lower TLs if such people were available?

The memory part is probably not as useful on its own, though it will be highly useful in combination with IM. The only meaningful use I see is the ability to not use as much storage media.

Probably the most important point that will prevent these fellas from completely replacing the need for computers is the bandwidth - even if they can store huge amounts of data and perform calculations 'faster than many computers', they still have to hand over the results in a slower manner.

So, any additions? Any specific ideas on the technological impact?

Thanks in advance!

[sir_pudding]

Really really complex codes.

[downer]

They would probably learn to compress information by encoding it with relatively complex algorithms, so that short pieces of text (spoken or written) might contain disproportionate amounts of information. That would allow them to use their bandwidth more effectively. If telepathy exists in your world, these people would probably kill to be able to learn it.

On the topic of inventions:
Obviously, mathematics would be more advanced, provided these people can put their intuitions to paper. Other people might also analyze what they are doing and come up with ideas of their own. Mechanical calculation machines might be used by ordinary people who don't have access to a mind-guy of their own. Of course, if only these folks can build such machines, they might make a fortune out of that.
Branching off of maths, physics, economy, astronomy and navigation would be much advanced. Determining longitude was a problem that plagued European sailors well into the 18th century. These guys could probably figure it out much faster, and do many of the required calculations in no time at all, so you should expect the exploration of the globe to go a lot faster, particularly since maps will also be more exact. Likewise, the geocentric worldview might disappear sooner, as these guys can point out how atrocious the math behind it is.

As to their occupations:
Like the Mentats of Dune, these people would probably become advisors to the high and mighty. Merchants might want them as walking inventories, to keep track of goods and prices and to calculate interest and running costs. Nobles would want them for administrative duties, as well as as chroniclers of their actions, living databases of common law and to keep track of their numerous relations and subjects. Priests would employ them to commit canon law, religious texts and donations to memory and calculate dodgy holidays (like Easter) years ahead of time.
As a corollary, the archives of such powerful individuals might be largely be composed of coded text readable only to the mind-guys (or, in higher TLs, computers).
As mentioned above, they would make excellent navigators on long ocean voyages, and would also be formidable messengers, as they never forget any part of a message, even a long one.

All these crucial and sensitive functions would probably require them to develop a Code of Honor (never divulge information entrusted to you, never lie to your employer, never alter data you've been given), as well as a social mechanism that makes their use safe (it's forbidden on pain of death to capture, slay, impede or attempt to bribe these people).

On the higher TLs, computers will begin to compete with them, but then they will just fall into place there, as the masterminds behind the computer revolution, having designed the computer systems, the encryption codes and the data transfer protocols. Again, their code of honor and the established sanctity of their persons would serve them well.

[Kraydak]

Order of magnitude calculations. Lots of em. It'll keep the politicians (a bit more) honest!

A much better understanding of probability. It'll drastically improve risk management (and hurt lottery ticket sales).

[Figleaf23]

I think Eidetic memory might make a populace less susceptible to propaganda and political manipulation. They will remember statements and events accurately and so misrepresenting and distorting them for political purposes would be more difficult.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

... I'm assuming that a large percentage of the race will pursue careers that at least partially utilize their talents.

Well, the improved memory will be useful for almost any roles.

As for the Math, I'm not so sure it would make for a different distribution of professions among the society -- the same other functions would still be needed, and gradations of math ability through other traits would still define who got the important math-related jobs.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

As for the Math, I'm not so sure it would make for a different distribution of professions among the society -- the same other functions would still be needed, and gradations of math ability through other traits would still define who got the important math-related jobs.

Agreed. Look at humans from the point of view of a hypothetical brainy alien race that happens to suffer from Per-2, Gullibility (9), and Incompetence (Criminology and Forensics): We're all natural detectives! We must have no crime! Of course, that isn't true.

All that great competence or lack of gross incompetence relative to another species means is that in mixed-species societies, the species that's better at a job will tend to get that job more often. In a single-species society, that job will go to those with competence above the racial norm. Everybody else will do the usual stuff needed to maintain a society.

I suspect that most competency-related racial traits wouldn't change the cross-section of jobs seen in a society. What would do that is traits that remove basic needs (e.g., Doesn't Eat or Drink) or that alter altruism levels (e.g., Selfish or Selfless). By contrast, task aptitude or ineptitude would simply raise or lower the baseline from which exceptional aptitude or ineptitude are measured when determining who will get what jobs. The baseline wouldn't matter much until another species with a different baseline came along . . . I mean, that's why we don't compete with bloodhounds in the lucrative "tracking people by scent" job market.

[Nymdok]

Look at it carefully through the lenses of not just profession, but culture as well. Start with the cultural touchstones you know and then attempt to look at them through the lenses of EACH advantage, then look at them through the perspective of having BOTH advantages, then look at them through the eyes of someone who has neither.

Just having Eididitc Memory would make you able to write Operas and Plays of phenominal length. But honestly, if you presented that to a race of people who had EM they would only pay to see it once. If you presented it to those who didnt have EM, they might find it to be too long.

Having Both, for example, might make ANY attempt at visual art completely pointless, since any picture drawn, in the limits of its medium, will NEVER stack up to the perfect picture you keep in you head and the calculable mathmatical dimensions you can exact upon it.

It might also lead to POINTLESS wastes of time. See gullivers travels for examples such as teaching blind people to mix paint by smell and Softening Marble for use as pillows. Not every truly challenging and interesting problem is worth pursuing and investing resources in.

As Kromm mentioned, dont forget that having the ability and the ability to express those abilities are 2 different things. Justice might be an endless and fruitless pursuit as the demands of standard for incriminating data might be way too high.

Finally, dont discount that even accurate, well recorded data can lead people to faulty conclusions, even with the use of good logic! :)

Nymdok

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

As a tangent to another thread, I would like to open up discussion of consequences of having Intuitive Mathematician and either Eidetic Memory or Photographic Memory in the racial template of a race that comprises between 5% and 25% of a given local population (the rough ration of this race grows from 5% to 25% as TL goes from roughly 6 to roughly 8-9, but looking at the lower ratio from lower TLs is interesting too).

Why do they breed so much more than regular folks? And what did they give up in order to get those mental abilities?

I'm assuming that a large percentage of the race will pursue careers that at least partially utilize their talents.

Yeah, they'll control all the money.

Probably the biggest impact is the ability to perform some of the actions that would normally require a computer. So, what sorts of breakthroughs would become available at lower TLs if such people were available?

Zilch. Nada. Niento. Nothing would be available at lower TLs if such people were available just because they were available. Better to ask what wouldn't be available. Computers for example would be unlikely to advance beyond the Jacquard loom due to a lack of perceived need for calculation devices.

Probably the most important point that will prevent these fellas from completely replacing the need for computers is the bandwidth - even if they can store huge amounts of data and perform calculations 'faster than many computers', they still have to hand over the results in a slower manner.

The problem of course is that is only true once computers are sophisticated. I think they'd be killed in the cradle as if they were Roman steam engines.

[Genesis]

Downer's post was a great example of one way this could play out - with the natural quants taking the role of mentat/advisor. I especially like bits of social hypothesis - you've posited a whole class of "hyper-bards" that take some existing fantasy tropes and dial them up to 11. This isn't the only possible outcome, however.

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For one, how these individuals are treated will depend on how obvious the difference is. Are these people immediately obvious as non-human, or are they at least easily differentiable from baseline people after limited interactions (like autistic people, perhaps) there's a good chance they'll be treated differently. Whether they're treated with respect and honor, as downer postulates, or with fear or superstition is one interesting switch to throw.

It might be possible that these individuals provoke substantial fear in normal people - especially if their unique talents hamper social interactions (quite possible, considering how much of human culture depends on subtly manipulating and mis-remembering the past). Even if their services are valuable, people might ostracize them! Consider as an example the economically valuable practice of moneylending during the middle ages. Papal decree forbade Christians from being lenders, but it's an important function in a healthy economy (especially an agrarian one). Jews became disproportionately engaged in the practice, which was seen as being inferior, and it exacerbated antisemitism in medieval Europe. If the Sirkin are already in a position to be treated "differently" (here with a negative context, due to social awkwardness, superstition,or what-have-you), being particularly suited to particular jobs might exacerbate the problem. This would lead to Sirkin individuals being ostracized except for their valuable skills - I'm picturing the learned old man that lives on the outskirts of every sizable village. He's smelly, his cottage is messy, and mothers warn their children not to play there - but he's necessary when people need to solve infrequent problems (that most folk don't remember), settle disputes involving math (mercantile and land-ownership disputes pop to mind), or other specialized tasks. I think this is probably not the vibe you're going for (based on your other posts on the topic), but it's another possibility. These things need not be planet-wide, either - perhaps some cultures respond differently!

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Another "switch" to throw is the master/vizier toggle. What's preventing these individuals from being the big bosses themselves? Downer postulates a class of assistants and advisers, but that would seem to require a reason why these folks don't just take over themselves. There are lots of potentially good reasons for this - imposed social restrictions or traditions, personal lack of interest (perhaps they're not interested in power - just solving puzzles!), or the inability to produce direct heirs (depending on how you've worked out breeding and what inheritance rights look like in your setting).

A Sirkin in power (with social skills, here) would be a fearsome opponent in many struggles. A Sirkin king could remember every aspect of the workings of his kingdom - woe betide the duke or lord who tried to hold back tithes or plot against his leige. A modern Sirkin would have little to fear from espionage - he'd leave no paper trail. A powerful Sirkin could outmatch his opponents logistically in both military and economic struggles, an advantage that is only exacerbated as technology advances (think of the American civil war - a conflict enormously impacted by the North's advantage in supply lines and logistics). A Sirkin need not fear treacherous advisers (he doesn't need advisers!) or accidental oversight of a potential foe. Sirkin in power might cultivate a solitary and secretive aspect, jealously guarding their knowledge as the bulwark of their power. The human minions of a Sirkin lord could be effective even when totally ignorant of the larger scheme - just follow orders to the letter, and the master will plan for all eventualities. A villainous Sirkin might keep his henchmen purposefully off-balance, the better to discourage them getting upitty.

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Getting back to the focus of the OP - inventions, technologies and so on.

Sirkin will be logistical masters: intuitive mathematicians with perfect memory of crop yields, seasonal variations, demands for goods, etc. could set up large-scale economies (with at least some of the efficiencies of scale that come with the territory) much earlier than mundane populations. A few years ago UPS saved several billion dollars a year by figuring out how to land more planes on overlapping runways in the same amount of time - accomplished with computer programs and (I suspect) dozens of highly-paid consultants. Imagine what a single Sirkin could do with a caravan empire in the ancient middle east....

Sirkin will figure out statistics way sooner than mundane populations. This has substantial impacts all over the place - I imagine it'll lead to improved theories of disease transmission and more effective medicines pretty early in history (for a start).

Sirkin will figure out simple machines earlier than mundane populations. Gear ratios and force multipliers (like pulleys and levers) will seem obvious. These tools define the dawn of real human civilization, a process that took thousands of years to get off the ground after we took our biologically modern forms. Sirkin will shave vast swathes off that time.

Downer already mentioned navigation - this is giant, and can't be overstated. Large-scale anything requires accurate navigation, mapping, and geography - all based on geometry and algebra. Expect to see much more accurate maps much earlier than in mundane societies, and much better time keeping.

Downer also mentioned astronomy - in the context of discarding heliocentric models. This is just the tip of the iceberg, really. An interested astronomer with IM and Eidetic Memory could figure out all of classical astronomy (from Copernicus to Kepler to Newton) without the aid of a telescope (which would likely be discovered significantly earlier anyway, because optics are essentially all geometry). The calculus would likely be discovered in ancient times. I can't even begin to fathom the differences that would make...

Nymdok had some disparaging things to say about art, but I don't think they apply to society as a whole, especially while Sirkin are only 5% of the population. The remaining 95% will still enjoy art and produce it, even if the Sirkin don't understand/appreciate/enjoy human art. There might even be two entirely separate artistic traditions! And just because your memory of a play is perfect doesn't mean you'll only pay to see it once. I know a handful of Shakespeare's works backwards and forwards but I'll still pay for tickets - there's more to a play than the plot!