Negative HP and its effects

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by fartrader

First Aid consists of bandaging (stops bleeding) and treating shock (stabilizes you), while both give HP's back. There's no rule needed for shock eliminating the roll to stay conscious, it's just reality that a stable person will not change states (so, no roll to stay conscious after full-blown First Aid is applied, not bandaging).

Yes this seems fair. If nothing else I'd say that the danger of falling unconscious once stabilised comes from the adrenaline of combat wearing off (same scale as suffering the impact of partial wounds), but given the time scale of First aid rolls that's going to be during the first aid roll anyway.


However I'd also argue that unless you are continuing to suffer blood loss of further damage at some point the danger of falling unconscious as a reaction to damage will pass anyway

Personally I'd run it as follows you keep rolling for conciousness checks for 20-HT checks after ceasing to take further damage. Because if you haven't fallen unconscious by then then I think its reasonable to say your body is going to have coped with the shock/damage without reacting in that way.


Now my own issue with conciousness checks is that the second by second scale is too fast or the do nothing restriction is too strict, and there's no mid point between.

I've messed around with making it a check every HT seconds rather than every second so long as you only do a single 0AP actions per second in that time (so you can move a hex, or aim, or fire a gun without rolling every second*)

Or just making it a HT second and doubling AP costs, with FP lose triggering an automatic conciousness check.

*I'd probably allow some 1AP action done sufficiently slowly to qualify, like readying.

[Vynticator]

My thinking was that once unconscious, you remain so until you get to 0 hp. So, no conflict.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Vynticator

My thinking was that once unconscious, you remain so until you get to 0 hp. So, no conflict.

Without magic, or even TL8 A&E suites, that could be very long time.

[namada]

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[namada]

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[Varyon]

Originally Posted by fartrader

First Aid consists of bandaging (stops bleeding) and treating shock (stabilizes you), while both give HP's back. There's no rule needed for shock eliminating the roll to stay conscious, it's just reality that a stable person will not change states (so, no roll to stay conscious after full-blown First Aid is applied, not bandaging).

That works well, yeah. It's not anywhere in the books (at least not that I can find), but it seems a perfectly logical option. Looks like we've got quite a few options (3 HT rolls in a row, 30+ minutes resting and possibly an HT roll, staying up for seconds equal to 20-HT, etc), most of which I'd combine with this one - the former are "recovering on your own," the latter one is how medical assistance can help.

Originally Posted by Vynticator

My thinking was that once unconscious, you remain so until you get to 0 hp. So, no conflict.

The issue that happens there is if you go unconscious and don't have someone nearby who can use healing magic or has TL6+ or so medical skills. You'll recover at best 1 HP a day, but you'll be losing 6 FP (from starvation and dehydration) in that time period, meaning if that 1 HP wasn't enough to get you to 0 HP, you'll probably lose it and the next HP the next day from FP loss (-12 FP, which would cause -2 HP if you have 10 FP to start with), and the following day you'll lose still more HP. Maybe a helper could keep you fed and hydrated (the latter being easier than the former, and neither being likely to be 100% effective), but that's a long time of dedicated care before you wake up.

Of course, if your characters frequently have access to healing magic/superscience and you're fine with "going unconscious alone is a death sentence" (which isn't exactly unrealistic, honestly), the above is a complete non-issue.

[Vynticator]

Varyon: yes, I am kind of ok with the realism of falling unconscious grievously wounded alone = death.

I wonder whether I am remembering the wake up at 0 hp thing from 3e? There are still some 4e things which haven't totally overwritten my 3e ruleset in my head :)

[namada]

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[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by fartrader

The rules do state that the GM can determine if a character is truly unconscious or if they're merely incapacitated (B423, top of second column, under recovery heading).

True although in terms of game effect they are functionally identical.

Originally Posted by fartrader

One alternative, I was thinking of, is that it might make sense to say 3 consecutive successes mean you're not going to fall unconscious unless you get wounded again or continue to do strenuous activity (a variant of the Bleeding rules on B420).

Yeah I like that, (especially the symmetry with the bleeding rules) it certainly makes the point that the danger has passed.

Simpler than mine as well