Vessel Variants

[JCD]

I like discussing variant vessel types. This thread is to cover the various different options you use when you deal with vessels.

Since I'm starting, I will discuss some vessel history, which is atmosphere in my campaign world:

The Fate of the Grigori


The Archangels first used the measure of man to create vessels for their Servitors. While a few changes were made, allowing for them to fully utilize their strength and senses, they were almost indistinguishable from man.


And this was a major problem. One of the instrinsic differences between the vessels of the Grigori, besides fertility, was a lack of control of their endocrine systems, just like humans. And since they tended to be optimized human bodies, they had the activity of a teenager in their hormones.

From there, it was only a matter of time...

Many lessons were learned from that period. And besides sterility, the uncontrollable impulses of the human body were tamed. How the mind acted was beyond the control of the Archangels.

(Game related: The eldest Grigori are in human bodies. Seduction of an angel/demon is possible but is based on the mental aspects, not mere physicality)

[Acolyte]

We had a Vessel scare recently when the high-profile (aka high Status, high Level Role) Seraph was shot in front of dozens of witnesses. Naturally they carted him off to the hospital, and it took some cagey maneuvering on the part of the party Ofanite to get him back out of there without the doctors asking the wrong sort of questions. So that's a rule I enforce.

One question I have about Vessels is aging. Aging can be emulated with a few Songs and attunements, of course, but aging is such a gradual process that the changes only become apparent when comparing old pictures or when you haven't seen someone in awhile. If a Vessel doesn't age for an entire year, then gets a quick dose of Corporeal Entropy or whatever to bring him up to the proper age, everyone will notice a dramatic change. And since lots of celestials are in very long term assignments (my mind springs to Pachadim living with families, but also undercover Servitors of Dominic, Asmodeus, and Michael), the question has to come up. Do Vessels age? Do they age only when the celestial wills it? Do they age when they aren't in use (for example, when they are the backup Vessels of an angel with a primary Vessel)?

Another question I have is about how easy it is in your games to get replacement Vessels that look similar, or if replacement Vessels tend to be a crapshot of whatever the Superior has on-hand at the time, a more appropriate one to follow later?

More generally, I find is quite sad that nontraditional Vessels get such a small mention in the books, because when you get right down to it, Vessels are about as important for celestials as clothes for humans--you can't go out and around without them, but they don't define you except to shallow people. For example, children can get into and get away with the darndest things, and if they say strange things or generally act ignorant of society it's rapidly explainable. Plus, when things go downhill, there's got to be a shock factor for even a Soldier of Hell to see a 5-year-old girl punch his master through a wall.

Animal Vessels, while required for Jordi, don't seem to get much play elsewhere. Djinn watching a location would probably be even more effective as pigeons than bums, and Laurence's followers who focus on tracking and hunting demons could certainly use the abilities of a wolf or eagle Vessel. Likewise, Janus' servitors might more easily fulfill their need to move about in animal Vessels (and I can't imagine most Ofanim would pass up the opportunity to fly around at insane speeds only to break at the last second and land on someone's arm or eyes). Demonically, I can easily see Asmodeus handing out insect Vessels for spies or Kobal punishing an out-of-control Calabite by putting it in a declawed kitten Vessel and inflicting the Bound Discord. Andre might have even more unspeakable uses for animal Vessels--especially his Balseraphs, who are capable of imposing attractions on people. I'd rather not dwell on that, though.

Truly insane and monstrous Vessels are mostly off-limits because of the secrecy of the War...but I still think they should be more common than they are. Very old celestials might still have them, even if they don't use them. Beleth's demons could use them to be scary under circumstances people might later attribute to dreaming, and angels might use unearthly beauty Vessels (or Vessels shaped like "angels" in popular culture) to contact certain mortals. Some celestials might have "battle Vessels" held in reserve for when battling opponents under circumstances where unaware mortals aren't likely to be around (the middle of the wilderness, deep inside a large Tether, etc).

Other zany Vessels might also exist--who knows what Eli might give you, or what Lilith might have picked up on the cheap from some ethereals and would be willing to part with for just a little donation?

So many options.

[JCD]

Interesting take.

I have a couple of rules for vessels: Anything up to vessel/2 is undetectable to modern medicine. After that, things start to stand out a bit too much.

So at a certain level, housekeeping is in order.

The other rule is that little used or new vessels apply a penalty to skills etc Height, weight, and skeletal structure are all different. It is ONLY the Celestial intelligence which allows them to grow accustomed to it so quickly.

****

Another vessel variant would be the 'town bike' vessel. This is a vessel which can be worn by any Celestial, i.e. it can serve as a generic vessel for anyone at a touch.

Possession of the vessel becomes much easier. One inflicting the Song, or a Kyriotate or Shedim would be easier since it is designed to be entered.

I could also apply a -1 to characteristics across the board. (Better -2 first day, -1 next 6 days)

Wearing one for more then 6 days will cause it to customize to the Celestial however. So it is of limited use.

[Andygal]

re: vessels aging, I believe there is a mention in the main rulebook that vessels can be made to *appear* to age normally at the option of the owner. This is of course only cosmetic they don't suffer from any of the weakening, sensory impairment etc that mortal bodies suffer, they just get wrinkles and gray hair and such. This can be used to prolong the use of a Role for longer then a few years, which would otherwise be difficult.

That's the canon take on that. I believe.

[JCD]

I have to answer in more detail to Acolyte.

I agree that having a 'combat' vessel SHOULD be more common. The problem is that the rules don't address this. Parsidio the Calabim is just as strong, tough and agile when wearing Little Molly Perkins, the 7 year old vessel, as when he is wearing Flynt the 7 foot tall biker. No mechanic for his exists, though the GM should seriously consider the benefits of weight, leverage and mass of one vessel over the other in making rulings.

His comment on how a vessel does not self define is true, but it is CRITICAL to how others deal with you. Or is Flynt going to get the same reception at a Church Social as Little Molly.

One idea shared made enormous sense. Most 'fledgling' Celestials probably ARE sent down wearing children vessels to avoid some of the social faux pas that a new Celestial trips over.

Re the animal vessels...yes and no. I cannot see a mosquito vessel getting 25 body hits. I can barely see them getting ONE. A forty pound dog/child/computer is not as massive or tough as a 250 pound man/lion/statue.

Part of the reason I bring this up is to try to get the group to start filling in the holes and expanding the game to some of it's logical conclusions.

[alexondria]

I've done some of that with NPC characters.

In an old game I ran I had 2 servitors of Amadeus that were in dog vessels as punishment for being bad in the wrong way.

In my current game there was one incident with a demon convincing his Superior to give him a vessel that matched one of the player characters and creating all kinds of havoc for him. Letting himself be seen burning churches and such.

I've had a demon with a vessel that looks a lot like a pop culture angel complete with aura of light talk to mortals and convince them to follow her path.

At one point I had a pc that had some kind of bird vessel just for spying.

I don't think the hit points are really an issue either- I mean look at the hit points for a normal vessel- say the celestial is 3 corporeal forces and puts their traits evenly- that is str 6. Their options would be a (vessel level - hit points) 1 - 12, 2 - 15, 3 - 18, 4 - 21, 5 - 4, 6 - 27, the three handguns in the book vary in damage between maxing out at 5 points to maxing out at 9 points. Thus a celestial being shot by the mid ranged handgun would take 2 shots at check digit 6 to go down with just a 1st level vessel. Thus it just seems to me that all of their vessels are tougher than you would expect something to be so why not an animal vessel too.

[Rocket Man]

Our campaign's had a little fun with vessels. Our rough, tough Malakite warrior currently inhabits the body of a 9-year-old girl, for example, while a murderous Calabite we had to deal with used the vessel of a Doberman Pinscher called Killer.

So far, we've largely defined the differences as social. Hrothgar the Malakite (known as "Mindy" in this incarnation) still has his power, ability and toughness, but largely gets ignored or patronized by adults who aren't "in the know." (Though I suppose reach is a potential issue, too, in a combat situation.) And Killer, as a vicious dog without an owner, could be locked up by an animal shelter and executed far more rapidly than a murderous human would ... which had us racing the clock when he became a possible Redemption candidate.

I'd be interested in seeing what variant rules folks come up with, though. One thought comes to mind off the top of my head: perhaps insect Vessels can't be bought above level 1 on the individual level. Higher levels can only be bought as an insect swarm, the whole group moving with one mind. (Given the abilities of Jordi's Kyriotates, this either means that other celestials can't create a "swarm vessel" or that if they do, it lacks the flexibility of a Kyrio -- it can move in squadron, so to speak, but not as individual pilots.) That would mean that the celestial's not down until you've swatted every last bug ... and frankly, given the difficulty of that task, the high hit points of such a Vessel become quite believable. ;)

EDIT: And yes, Andygal, you're right on the money. Page 48 of my printing says a vessel's owner can "elect to have the vessel appear to age at a normal human rate in order to maintain a Role."

[JCD]

Originally Posted by alexondria

I don't think the hit points are really an issue either- I mean look at the hit points for a normal vessel- say the celestial is 3 corporeal forces and puts their traits evenly- that is str 6. Their options would be a (vessel level - hit points) 1 - 12, 2 - 15, 3 - 18, 4 - 21, 5 - 4, 6 - 27, the three handguns in the book vary in damage between maxing out at 5 points to maxing out at 9 points. Thus a celestial being shot by the mid ranged handgun would take 2 shots at check digit 6 to go down with just a 1st level vessel. Thus it just seems to me that all of their vessels are tougher than you would expect something to be so why not an animal vessel too.

All interesting variants. However, it is much easier to reinforce the bones and skin of a 200 lb man then a 6 oz bird.

The only caveat I would add to that statement is if you base hit points upon the 'supernatural force' of the Celestial. However, why then does the level of vessel matter at all? It suggests a more rugged 'build' to me.

As a home rule, I wouldn't allow the same number of hit points for a vessel one bird as a vessel one human. The player should be satisfied with the added stealth and abilities that the vessel brings.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by JCD

The only caveat I would add to that statement is if you base hit points upon the 'supernatural force' of the Celestial. However, why then does the level of vessel matter at all?

Hmmm. I could see a house rule where no vessel could be a higher level than your Corporeal Forces, representing a celestial's command of the physical. That would allow the vessel level to still matter, while keeping the rationale that the toughness is supernatural rather than just a really buff build.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

Another question I have is about how easy it is in your games to get replacement Vessels that look similar, or if replacement Vessels tend to be a crapshot of whatever the Superior has on-hand at the time, a more appropriate one to follow later?

In my game, it depends on the Superior. Eli's big on making each Vessel a unique creation (wonder why?<g>), so it's impossible for a Creationer to get a lookalike Vessel for one that was lost. Baal likes the "faceless trooper" vibe, so it's difficult to get a Vessel from him that doesn't look like all the other Vessels worn by demons of The War unless you're high-ranked (i.e. have one of his Distinctions) or in military intelligence (i.e. full-time spying on angels or other demons). Other Superiors fall somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by Acolyte

Demonically, I can easily see Asmodeus handing out insect Vessels for spies ...

Ah, but Beelzebub is the Lord of the Flies - he gets upset if some other Demon Prince starts handing out insect Vessels.

(This is as a demonic counterpart to how nobody but Jordi gives insect Vessels to angels. It's also house-rule, since there's no official writeup for Beelzebub...)