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Old 04-27-2013, 11:54 AM   #1
Talonos
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Default GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

If I read correctly:

Flying cavalry has a strength of two, and contributes to flying and fire superiority.

Flying mages have half the cost, also contribute Artillery, C3I, and Recon superiority, and two and a half times the strength.

Huh?

It's obviously unbalanced, but why would that be? Is this just SJ Games way of saying "flying cavalry would never work in practice?" Is there some other limitation on mages, such as "it's assumed only ten percent of potential recruits are magic-capable?" I'm still scratching my head over this.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

Purely speculative, but a couple of things come to mind:
  • With cavalry, you have an animal and a rider to feed, house, etc. That adds to the cost of that unit.
  • Perhaps mages are assumed to be more rare than riding animals like gryphons. So while your statements are true, if you can only have 10 mages in your army because that's how many are available, but 1000 gryphons, you'll take what you can get.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

It sounds like you think there should be a balance between cost and effectiveness. Why? Multiple things costing the same do not always have the same utility, you just go with what you have available and what you can afford.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
It sounds like you think there should be a balance between cost and effectiveness.
If both unit types are used in the same setting, there should be. Otherwise the less cost effective unit type simply doesn't get made.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
If both unit types are used in the same setting, there should be. Otherwise the less cost effective unit type simply doesn't get made.
Assuming you can just pour money into it to get them made. However much of history is based on a difference of what is available and not just what you can afford.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

I can see it from a bunch of different perspectives:

Let's say you train your mages from scratch. After finding magic capable people (which may or may not be easy) you need to give them enough training to have enough points to spend on spells that give them enough flexibility to merit the four superiority classes they occupy. They'll need some spell that counts as "artillery", some ranged attack spell, some spell or series of spells that will let them qualify for C3I, and some spell or series of spells that will qualify as "recon". This is going to be a lot of points, especially considering you can't count on them having "heroic" levels of intelligence or magery. Because they fly, they'll need flight training as well. And this all doesn't include basic training that gives them the soldier skill, savoir-faire millitary, etc.

Flying cavalry need only to know how to ride their mount and use their weapons, as well as any "everyman" skills the military requires.

Because units require one week to train per 10k of their raise cost, this implies that despite mages needing far more points worth of abilities, they are still trained faster. An "inferior" group of flying mages, taking 15 weeks to train, is still somehow superior to a "standard" group of flying cavalry that takes 80 weeks to train.

It makes less sense when you take into account the rules on military training. Training at military speed 16 hours a day gives you about a point a week, assuming you have HT 12 so you don't "wash out". Assuming you have found people with magery and 12 HT, you can give an inferior group of mages 15 points worth of spells. In the mean time, the flying cavalry have 80 points worth of training, and fighters are more likely to have a high HT than mages.

Now, lets say that the mages come pre-trained in magic, and the "training time" only counts for their induction into the military. Casters selling their service like this could charge commensurately more. Wouldn't they demand at least as much pay as their cavalry cousins?

The only thing I could imagine is that the numbers represent "drafting" high-point value mages from a prestigious magical university, assuming such a supply exists, and only for as long as it doesn't run out. I could justify it if I squint really tight, but is this truly the design intent?
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

Another facotr to take into account in your salary costs is the mage is more likely to be able to earn a good income on thier own then a calvary unit.
So unless you have a draft your paying for that competion.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:02 PM   #8
Talonos
 
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

Right, exactly. So why are mages not more expensive? Given that I don't mind a discrepancy between cost and effectiveness, there's still head-scratching to be done, purely from a world-building perspective.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:05 PM   #9
Adina
 
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

It helps to remember that Mass Combat is not a stand-alone wargame or an politic-economic simulator.

It is intended to resolve large scale combats within a role-playing campaign. So the army composition is going to come from the events in the campaign world and not from someone spending points/money/tokens to design an ideal optimized army.

Anyway to answer the original post, it is quite possible that only flying mages or flying cavalry are available, not both. Plus a Flying cavalry element is a small unit (ten or so) while a mage may well be a single individual.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: GURPS Mass Combat: Why is flying cavalry so expensive?

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Originally Posted by jmurrell View Post
It helps to remember that Mass Combat is not a stand-alone wargame or an politic-economic simulator.

It is intended to resolve large scale combats within a role-playing campaign. So the army composition is going to come from the events in the campaign world and not from someone spending points/money/tokens to design an ideal optimized army.
Which was my point, though I did not make it as well.
A wargame I would expect better parity between troop types but that is not a concern in a suplement that is merely translating campaign elements into combat stats for an abstract battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurrell View Post
Anyway to answer the original post, it is quite possible that only flying mages or flying cavalry are available, not both. Plus a Flying cavalry element is a small unit (ten or so) while a mage may well be a single individual.
Also a good point.
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