Control and Elemental Beings

[UncreativeNameMaker]

Can Control be used in any way on a being composed completely of one substance? The description of Control specifically forbids using it to replicate the effects of Mind Control. But what about reshaping the creature's body? Such as using Control (Metal) to fuse an iron golem's limbs to its body. Or Control (Earth) to heal a earth elemental.

Would that require Affliction (Morph), Innate Attack, Healing, etc. all with "only beings made of X"?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by UncreativeNameMaker

Can Control be used in any way on a being composed completely of one substance? The description of Control specifically forbids using it to replicate the effects of Mind Control. But what about reshaping the creature's body? Such as using Control (Metal) to fuse an iron golem's limbs to its body. Or Control (Earth) to heal a earth elemental.

Would that require Affliction (Morph), Innate Attack, Healing, etc. all with "only beings made of X"?

OTTOMH, I'd say the latter. Control should not be used that way on creatures. I'd qualify that to allow for Controlling animated objects, though.

[HeroPenguin]

Originally Posted by UncreativeNameMaker

Can Control be used in any way on a being composed completely of one substance? The description of Control specifically forbids using it to replicate the effects of Mind Control. But what about reshaping the creature's body? Such as using Control (Metal) to fuse an iron golem's limbs to its body. Or Control (Earth) to heal a earth elemental.

Would that require Affliction (Morph), Innate Attack, Healing, etc. all with "only beings made of X"?

I'd say no, it wouldn't require alternative abilities, for the same reason that using Create (Fire) doesn't require you to have an alternate attack to damage someone with the created flames. However, when using Control on a sentient being, I believe the suggestion is to treat it as a contest of skills, using the target's Will or HT (depending on the nature of the power) to resist the change. IIRC, this rule applies even to things like swords and armor.

IMO, the entire point of a power like Control is to encourage creative uses for it. The cost of that is the higher comparative cost to any one individual effect. I'd allow all the above in a game I ran, though I'd probably be winging it completely.

[Charleson Mambo]

How about having Control (Foo) work like Telekinesis when used against a hunk of animated Foo?


Charleson Mambo

[Xplo]

I wouldn't, unless Foo can normally float.. but you could make Foo jump or stretch outwards, I guess.

[PK]

Technically, Control cannot be used at all on "living beings". It's an open question whether or not one considers an elemental a "living being". (FTR, I don't think we should go into this question -- that would be a complete and utter threadjack. Let's just leave the question open, okay?)

At any rate, if the GM allows it, I would say that at a minimum, the elemental should get to resist with the higher of Will or HT. This would be a quick contest versus the shaper's initial IQ roll to activate Control.

[RedMattis]

I would not allow it.
If you'd like to have real fire control with the ability to effect elementals and such you should buy cosmic modular abilities with a bunch of limitations thrown into the mix.
Control & Create should never be able to replicate Modular abilities outside of what is written in the RAW. If you want them to do other things than what is found in the RAW, buy the modular abilities...

[Xplo]

After reviewing the writeup in Powers, I don't think I'd let controlled substances jump after all.

As for elementals, the question is simple to me: do you consider elementals to be creatures that are literally made of their element, or spirits who inhabit and animate it? The former would be a "living being" and ineligible for control; the latter should probably resist with an appropriate skill or attribute.

[JoelSammallahti]

One could approach the question from the point of view of the elemental. Personally, I think "affected by Control instead of by Mind Control, and Elemental spells instead of Mind & Body Control spells" would make a perfectly reasonable 0-point feature.

[laserdog]

Power's says you can give combat penalties to those "standing in an area of matter or energy you control"

I'd guess that you could do the same to a being made of the element at double the effectiveness.

So Control Whatever 1, would allow you to give a -1 to all combat actions made by someone submerged in Whatever, and a -2 to a Whatever elemental.

Before Kromm chiming in on the "Water vs Mechanical and Electrical" thread, I probably wouldn't have ruled this way, but Kromm made it clear that it's okay for a racial template to include obscure and rare vulnerabilities (like injecting air into a human's veins), without them being explicitly codified by disads.

It, of course, matters greatly if the creature is made of "Elemental Whatever" vs just "Mundane Whatever", and that that still falls under the purview of the particular Control power.