Shield Bashing

[Anders]

For shield and weapon style:

1) Do I need Double-Weapon Attack to attack with shield and weapon without a -4 to attack?

2) Can I attack and block with a shield in the same turn?

[evileeyore]

Shields are no good, dirty weights hangin uselessly on yer arm! Now that I'm done bashing shields...


1 - Yes. Or use an All Out Attack (Double) Maneuver, but that will stop from being able to do #2.
2 - Yes.

[Varyon]

Pure RAW, I don't think Dual Weapon Attack is available for two different skills at once, meaning you'd theoretically need to buy up DWA for both Broadsword and Shield separately. I feel that's ridiculous, however, and have no problem with a single Technique covering the combination. As for later mixing and matching, I think it would depend on how gritty of a feel I'm going for. One option - the grittier one - is that DWA is purchased on a per-combination basis. DWA (Broadsword) is actually DWA (Broadsword/Broadsword), for example, and doesn't apply at all when using a mix. Another option would be to still do it on a per-combination basis, but when using a different mix it is at half effect - a character with DWA (Broadsword/Shield) who uses a broadsword and knife together would be at -2/-4, rather than -4/-4 (assuming Ambidexterity or appropriate OHWT). The least gritty would be a case where DWA (Broadsword) for example eliminates the Broadsword penalty, regardless of what's in the other hand; when doing a two-skill combination, I'd put it at half value to go "off type" - someone with DWA (Broadsword) is at +0/-4 to do DWA (Broadsword/Shield), while someone with DWA (Broadsword/Shield) is at -2/-2 to do DWA (Broadsword/Broadsword).

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Pure RAW, I don't think Dual Weapon Attack is available for two different skills at once...

Depends on if you accept Dungeon Fantasy* as RAW or not... and I've always allowed the mix and match, but it has to be set when the Technique is taken, so DWA (Axe/Mace and Shield) allows you to Dual Weapon Attack at lowered penalty when armed with an axe/mace weapon and a shield, but not an axe/mace and knife.

And I don't bother with "half-effects", but then I've been washing the grit out my games pretty religiously for the last two decades... but your idea is a good one.



* Dungeon Fantasy 11 Power-Ups Two-Weapon Fighting power-up allows the "set when taken mix-and-match" option.

[AlexanderHowl]

That is why Extra Attack exists, to allow you to not need to buy DWA for every combination. If you have Brawling, Knife, Shield, and Spear, you would need to buy DWA six times to have every combination, so Extra Attack is cheaper for characters with two arms/strikers. If you have more than two arms/strikers though, DWA becomes MWA (Multi-Weapon Attack), which allows one attack per arm/striker per arm/striker at skill-4, meaning that a character with four arms is better off buying MWA with up to fifteen combinations (six combat skills) than purchasing Extra Attack 3.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That is why Extra Attack exists, to allow you to not need to buy DWA for every combination. If you have Brawling, Knife, Shield, and Spear, you would need to buy DWA six times to have every combination, so Extra Attack is cheaper for characters with two arms/strikers. If you have more than two arms/strikers though, DWA becomes MWA (Multi-Weapon Attack), which allows one attack per arm/striker per arm/striker at skill-4, meaning that a character with four arms is better off buying MWA with up to fifteen combinations (six combat skills) than purchasing Extra Attack 3.

I did a quick check of MA and Basic, but couldn't find any support that DWA extends to become MWA that way. Where did you read that?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by naloth

I did a quick check of MA and Basic, but couldn't find any support that DWA extends to become MWA that way. Where did you read that?

There is no such thing as "Multi-Weapon Attack", however as per Kromm, Dual-Weapon Attack is actually "attack with all allowed weapons", so if you have 4 arms you can attack with all four simultaneously using Dual-Weapon Attack.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Weapon Mount doesn't require other limbs to use it . . . it's a limb that's good only for mounting a weapon. And yes, if a character is of a race and a TL where it makes sense to have N Weapon Mounts, he could turn Dual-Weapon Attack into (N+2)-Weapon Attack, allowing him to attack one target at -4 once and then at -8 N+1 more times, possibly buying this up to full skill with suitable perks and techniques. What keeps this under control is the GM's limit on Weapon Mounts (on a humanoid body, two is about the upper limit) and the PC's budget for weapons and ammo. And of course Dual-Weapon Attack, Extra Arms (Weapon Mount), and Off-Hand Weapon Training aren't free, and being able to engage lots of foes this way calls for Enhanced Tracking.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

There is no such thing as "Multi-Weapon Attack", however as per Kromm, Dual-Weapon Attack is actually "attack with all allowed weapons", so if you have 4 arms you can attack with all four simultaneously using Dual-Weapon Attack.

Which is pretty much Multi-Weapon Attack.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

That is why Extra Attack exists, to allow you to not need to buy DWA for every combination. If you have Brawling, Knife, Shield, and Spear, you would need to buy DWA six times to have every combination, so Extra Attack is cheaper for characters with two arms/strikers. If you have more than two arms/strikers though, DWA becomes MWA (Multi-Weapon Attack), which allows one attack per arm/striker per arm/striker at skill-4, meaning that a character with four arms is better off buying MWA with up to fifteen combinations (six combat skills) than purchasing Extra Attack 3.

Looking at DF11, you would really only need to take DWA once for each skill - a character with DWA (Spear) and DWA (Knife) can wield a spear in one hand and a knife in the other without issue. Note this relies on buying DWA (Shield), which has the oddity of being nearly useless without DWA in another skill. Extra Attack is the same cost as DWA with 5 skills, so if you anticipate needing to mix in more skills than that (say, add Broadsword and Axe/Mace to your list), Extra Attack is the way to go.

Extra Attack can still see use to allow for non-arm attacks, like headbutts, bites, eyebeams, etc. Well, maybe - you could find some justification in allowing those to be part of a MWA.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Which is pretty much Multi-Weapon Attack.

Which not existing in RAW makes it hard to discuss without hunting for the non-existent relevant posts here. I pretty much inferred what was being talked about, but others might not be as fluent with this forum.