02-23-2020, 08:44 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
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Also: I found in 3e Martial Arts there is a "Tail Kick" which is an interesting approach to tail strike rules for those who lack 'striker' tails |
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02-23-2020, 09:52 AM | #22 | |||||||||||
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
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tl;dr: Vargr can't kick because they have digitigrade feet, but that doesn't stop Aslan or Droyne from doing it. I suspect disagreement about what exactly counts as kick versus other ways of injuring with feet. Vargr: GURPS Traveller Classic p 83 Quote:
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GURPS Traveller Alien Races 2 p 5 Quote:
ASLAN AND THE MARTIAL ARTS [...] Quote:
Droyne GURPS Traveller Alien Races 3 p 65 Quote:
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02-23-2020, 02:48 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
I would say that all kicks follow the general rules unless otherwise stated.
The kicks which list different text for a consequence of a miss do so because the results differ from the standard assumption. The lack of additional text does not (imo) denote a lack of consequence derived from the general category. To me, this is consistent with how the rest of the rules are written. For example, some spells work differently than the general rules for magic state; when exceptions occur, they are spelled out. Spells which do not specifically state extra stuff do not cease to follow the general rules. Anecdotally, most rpgs I have played follow the concept of exception-based design when explaining how the game works. General rules are stated. Extra text is included when an exception to the general rule exists. Specific usually over-rides general. |
02-23-2020, 07:16 PM | #24 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
Looking at pics of the Vargr it really doesn't seem obvious why they would not be able to throw kicks. I would think if anything, someone who always walks around on tiptoe would be able to pull their toes out of the way better for striking using the ball of the foot. It's the flatfooted folk who often end up hurting themselves doing thrust kicks with toes accidentally... would definitely remove 'cannot kick' if updating them to 4E.
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I could see not applying a DX roll for balance on a missed push-kick for example, because pushing and kicking are actually very different motions. Normal kicks are very fast, so if you miss, you have a lot more momentum to slow down to maintain your balance. Push kicks are slower and more grinding. If you can't even line up your foot with your foe then you're not really going to commit much force to it to begin with, so I'm fine with not having any chance of falling there. As explained in my earlier post, the writeup for Back Kick in Basic already implies following basic rules, and Lethal Kick does as well in it's original incarnation where it's Lethal Strike atop basic Kicking rules. Sweep Kick doesn't, which I'm fine with for similar reasons as Push Kick: because it's more sustained-force after making contact, not "already-going-max-speed" like striking. |
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02-24-2020, 07:26 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
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So I don't worry about weather attacks involving legs are "kicks" or not, I worry about weather i think they risk losing your balance while doing them. (however this is very much a play style position, I don't worry too much about precise rules definitions) That said I find the roll to stay on your feet often a nuisance roll that adds little to my game. So I tend to say unless the modified target it 10 or less dont bother to roll. Unless the terrain is particularly difficult or the footing bad. So the net effect is in my games unless you really clumsy, inexperienced or trying this drunk, impaired or on something like a frozen pond, or scree face you probably fine.
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-24-2020 at 09:49 AM. |
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02-24-2020, 09:40 AM | #26 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
It looks scary on the outside, but it is nice to have a weird situation crop up like a knee strike while standing on gravel and bacon grease in the back of a tipping-out dump truck, and GURPS is like "hey, we've got a mechanic for that if you want it"
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02-24-2020, 09:56 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
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there's a good fight scene in one of the 70's musketeer films where they fight on an iced over river that makes me think of this. I think there is sometimes the temptation with such a complete system to apply all possible rules to a situation weather it benefits from it or not and you risk "missing the wood for the trees".
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course |
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02-24-2020, 02:47 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
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02-25-2020, 02:11 AM | #29 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
Yep, and since you mention grappling, I'm thinking of all this with the stability rules in technical grappling in mind.
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02-25-2020, 06:10 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: When is a Kick a Kick?
The issue is that fine line between "I'm so good at grappling I can use my opponent to avoid falling" vs "I'm barely handling this grapple and actually more likely to fall because it's so unstable".
In either case, it should be the strength of your grip which determines whether you're still connected, and whether or not your fall is prevented by your own opponent's balance, or if it's so compromised that they must come toppling too under the burden of the extra encumbrance. I know if I'm carrying something heavy (or wobbly) it's harder to keep my balance. If we applied encumbrance penalties to some kind of rule for walking around, then that could eventually on a fail lead to tumbles. Stacking those penalizing factors (like say, walking on ICE while a pair of goblins are dangling from each arm) on a roll is the best way I can think. Maintaining balance is usually considered so simple that you don't even roll, so I'd give a built-in No Nuisance Rolls and enough basic bonus (maybe +15 to skill, so even a DX 1 creature has skill 16) to not worry about it in normal circumstances, but then accumulating problems like grappling foes and slippery surfaces could introduce rolls. |
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