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Old 02-25-2019, 01:44 AM   #41
Lord Azagthoth
 
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

I didn't know the exact word for what those Germans dug in the ground when I wrote it. But these were 1 person foxholes, not trenches like those of WW I.

And look at the damage a tank's steel tracks do to asphalt and brick roads when they turn.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

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Remember this?

Foxholes are intended to protect against near-misses by artillery shells -- the fact that anyone survived at Verdun is a case in point. If the ground is competent to dig a 2m deep hole and keep it open, it can survive a drive-over. If the ground is too soft, the walls have to be braced anyway, so (again) the hole will survive a drive-over. We did this in infantry school, as a confidence-building drill. I have stood in a foxhole and watched a tank drive overhead -- twice, out and back.

Neutral-steering over a trench system is a way to chew at the edges and (eventually) bury the infantry inside under spoil, but a dozer blade on the front is a much better approach.
Thanks for that! My youthful folly was graduate school not the reserves, but I had a feeling (also, turning your tank in place long enough to collapse a foxhole seems like wagging your weakest armour and engine grating at the enemy while killing one squishy).

I have heard a story from the 1990/1991 Gulf War about NATO tanks driving along a slit trench behind a berm and then having someone hop out to plant a flag for the graves registration detail, but again that is trenches in sand (and by an army whose officers were scared to provide effective training lest the Mukhabarat decided they were plotting a coup). I think the tanks in question may have been fitted with dozer blades too.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

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For example page 21's The Glint of Light on Broken Glass is a lot harsher than what happened to John McClane, but then he probably spent a character or impulse point to reduce the damage to a Flesh Wound rather than get crippled.
Yes. A lot of things in GURPS Action 5: Dictionary of Danger will just kill you if you lack Luck, another kind of meta-game resource, or unrealistically high HT and HP – or unless the GM has switched on the cinematic options on pp. 37-38 of GURPS Action 2: Exploits (rules like "Cinematic Explosions," "Flesh Wounds," "Near Thing," "Second Wind," "Shake It Off," and "TV Action Violence"), which are assumed to be in effect in this genre. I'd hesitate to call most of the dangers realistic, but they're definitely on the gritty side of cinematic unless other aspects of the game are cinematic (character abilities, Impulse Points, optional campaign settings, etc.).
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:30 PM   #44
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

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From the Beast of War rolling over a prisoner
In that case, the prisoner seemed fairly enthusiastic about his heavenly reward, laying down willingly in front of the tread.

The remains weren't so pretty though.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:07 PM   #45
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

Ok, so I've been re reading Robert Liecke's "Helmet for my Pillow" WW2 memoirs, because I was absolutely positive it contained a firsthand account of the Stuart tanks on Guadacanal. But, I've re-read the book about three times now(it's a great memoir, I highly recommend it), and while they mention tanks at Tulgi point, it's not really indepth. But I knew I read that somewhere, and today while cleaning up the house, I found a copy of Bloody Ridge, by Michael B. Smith, which is an excellent book on the Gaudacanal campaign. And I got both Helmet and Bloody Ridge from the same retired Devil Dog, so I gues I just conflated them, as I spent a lot of time trying to match Liecke's accoutn up with the "official" accounts.

But at Tulgi point, the Stuart tanks did some running over of japanese soldiers, to the point that Marine Major General Vandegrift describe the backs of the tanks as looking like "meat grinders", after their assault. In addition, two japanese soldiers, Sgt Sadanobu Okada and Sgt Kuragane both survived tanks running over them, due to the roots of the coconut trees that kept the tanks from crushing them. Richard Tegaris describes a Japanese private whose torso looked like ground meat.

So it seems like they're probably pretty lethal, but you can also survive them if the ground is really soft, or you have something that doesn't give to protect you.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

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Ok, so I've been re reading Robert Liecke's "Helmet for my Pillow" WW2 memoirs, because I was absolutely positive it contained a firsthand account of the Stuart tanks on Guadacanal. But, I've re-read the book about three times now(it's a great memoir, I highly recommend it), and while they mention tanks at Tulgi point, it's not really indepth. But I knew I read that somewhere, and today while cleaning up the house, I found a copy of Bloody Ridge, by Michael B. Smith, which is an excellent book on the Gaudacanal campaign. And I got both Helmet and Bloody Ridge from the same retired Devil Dog, so I gues I just conflated them, as I spent a lot of time trying to match Liecke's accoutn up with the "official" accounts.

But at Tulgi point, the Stuart tanks did some running over of japanese soldiers, to the point that Marine Major General Vandegrift describe the backs of the tanks as looking like "meat grinders", after their assault. In addition, two japanese soldiers, Sgt Sadanobu Okada and Sgt Kuragane both survived tanks running over them, due to the roots of the coconut trees that kept the tanks from crushing them. Richard Tegaris describes a Japanese private whose torso looked like ground meat.

So it seems like they're probably pretty lethal, but you can also survive them if the ground is really soft, or you have something that doesn't give to protect you.
I remember reading about stuff like that on a couple of other occasions. Though that seems to be during a banzai charge and even Japanese only tried those when they decided everything else had gone to pieces. Other countries would have either surrendered or gone guerilla when they reached that point. That is why however frightening they were, in retrospect they seem uncommonly stupid. They were not trying to win, they were trying to die. Given that there is no more reason to get out of the way of a tank as there is anything else.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:31 PM   #47
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Default Re: GURPS: Getting Run Over by a Tank

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I remember reading about stuff like that on a couple of other occasions. Though that seems to be during a banzai charge and even Japanese only tried those when they decided everything else had gone to pieces. Other countries would have either surrendered or gone guerilla when they reached that point. That is why however frightening they were, in retrospect they seem uncommonly stupid. They were not trying to win, they were trying to die. Given that there is no more reason to get out of the way of a tank as there is anything else.
The japanese soldier was very motivated. One reason I prefer Liecke's account is that he didn't go through Okinawa, which was an absolute brutal slugfest. However, the struggle for Guadacanal is kind of a big deal. The Japanese were attempting to cover all their bases, but they just couldn't. And Cactus was going to be this proving ground.

This isn't unique to the American experience in the pacific. There are accounts of airborne troopers with their bazookas ground up in their bodies in Italy. This would be echoed in Korea.

I used to play the Microsoft game Close Combat, and one of the least fun times I ever had was being in charge or british paratrooper surrounded by german tanks. A mark 2 might be a joke when compared to any "serious" tanke, but the fact that it was able to ride around the woods my troops took cover in with immunity impressed me.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:10 PM   #48
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Just because I can lift 200+ pounds, doesn't mean I want a 200+ pound metal tread vehicle to roll over my foot.
I wonder if they're picturing something like pushing up on the treads like how you might try to bench press the foot of a giant trying to squash you.

That would probably be something like parrying. I think you can parry "Stomp Kick" but I don't know if you can parry trampling.

Even if you weren't strong enough to stop a giant's foot from coming down on your torso, I could see pushing enough to slow them down.
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