02-15-2018, 11:30 AM | #1161 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
I was a little surprised to see GURPS Basic Set: Characters in the top 40. It's been a while since that's happened. Can anyone provide some background on that? Was interest in GURPS up, possibly due to the Dungeon Fantasy RPG? Did that just happen because Munchkin fell some? Did the Amazon and/or DriveThruRPG ventures help with that?
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02-15-2018, 02:13 PM | #1162 |
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
It seems to me that the take away on DFRPG is that existing GURPS fans will back a kickstarter but that the boxed set format isn't an effective way to market GURPS and won't draw in waves of new fans.
So, while I suspect we'll see continued GURPS and even Dungeon Fantasy support, that kind of premium product is probably off the table for the foreseeable future. As somebody who's agitated for an introductory product for over a decade, I'd like to thank Steve Jackson Games for at least giving it a shot.
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http://www.neutralgroundgames.com |
02-15-2018, 03:52 PM | #1163 |
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
I've always enjoyed reading the Stakeholders Report - it's a window into the industry for a hobby that I've had all my life.
The part I found scary is that it sounds like the boardgame / physical game industry is starting to face the challenges that the computer game industry ran into several years ago - product flooding distribution channels, problems with quality, etc. I hope it doesn't end up where computer games are now - a few big winners, a bunch of games that have found their niches, and thousands of games a year that get lost in the churn, or were never worth considering in the first place - games published to make a quick buck (either by taking advantage of a fad or brand confusion), dream projects done by people who find themselves in over their head and which should have never seen the light of day in the first place, or games that are just simply bad for all the reasons games go bad. |
02-15-2018, 03:58 PM | #1164 |
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chicagoland
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Traditionally, we’d say the industry is in need of a shakeout. But with near zero barriers to entry and no (or low) overhead for most participants, is that even possible?
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GMing Since 1982. |
02-15-2018, 04:00 PM | #1165 |
Join Date: May 2008
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Upon discussing DFRPG at 2 different stores here in Austin (the home town of SJ Games), I learned both times that management had never heard of it. One of the stores decided to order a copy based on the look and feel of the product once he held it in his hands. This was a guy who when I first mentioned DFRPG said "It's too hard to sell against D&D and Pathfinder, I don't order other RPGs". The demo I ran at another store got people who weren't even a part of the demo to buy a copy just from looking at the material.
This game may have had a chance to take off if it had been given more time to build a bit of word of mouth steam or some marketing dollars. It's only been in retail channels for 4 months so far right? Why are you calling it failed with so little time to build any buzz? There are ways to generate buzz before the product hits the market, but, I never saw any marketing for the product outside of GURPS fans and authors pushing the product. I saw facebook posts, by SJ Games, but never did I see targeted advertising, despite the fact that my digital footprint makes me an *easy* target for DFRPG advertising. The market for RPGs compared with other types of games is somewhat different. They take more time to produce, to learn and to play. RPGs have a different life cycle. Treating the DFRPG box set the same way you treat Nanuk or Revolution limits its ability to succeed and prevents the wider GURPS world from growing as well. Personally, I'd ask you to reconsider the decision to never reprint. It's an excellent product and I'm proud to be able to show off the products in the wild. It gets difficult to Demo a DF GURPS game at my FLGS if most of the material I'll be using, they can't sell.
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Running 3 GURPS games: DFRPG, Supers and a weird Evil Hogwart's (ish) game. Check out my blog: Dungeons on Automatic |
02-15-2018, 04:13 PM | #1166 | |
Marketing Director
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Quote:
4 months is an eternity in the gaming world currently, as Phil pointed out in the report and on the thread, this isn't a slow-burn market we're working in. We're talking 6 weeks for games to make an impact; 4 months is generous. We never say never, so who knows, but it's highly unlikely we're getting one any time soon as per Phil's info. |
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02-15-2018, 04:49 PM | #1167 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Quote:
If not a physical product maybe a PDF release will generate enough buzz.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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02-15-2018, 04:49 PM | #1168 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Quote:
Not to be alarmist, but we may have reached that tipping point, where new recruits are hard to find, and grognards throwing themselves under the Mk. Vs tracks is not going to be enough forever. I'd have to imagine Ogre is one of the older skewing SJG titles. I am 48, and may be one of the younger of that core of fans keeping things running so far. Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly going to give up the CP without a fight, and pledge to do my best to keep a game I love alive. But I can see that without some growth and new blood, we are on a path that only leads to one place... |
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02-15-2018, 05:58 PM | #1169 |
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
Speaking as an existing GURPS fan who didn't back the Kickstarter. The reason I didn't was that I couldn't figure the damn thing out. You see, to get the box you had to pledge a certain amount, $50 IIRC, then there was shipping which was murder, $50 or $75, I'd have paid that. However there was some mystery $20 added onto all this, and I could never get an answer what that $20 was meant for. When I buy stuff I like to know what I'm paying for.
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02-15-2018, 06:14 PM | #1170 |
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Report To The Stakeholders
It seems to me that a gardening analogy, that of perennials verses annuals might be apt. Some products are constant sellers, sure a new supplement or edition will help it move and keep it on the customer's mind but it's a staple of the industry. Others bloom once and die. Some never even sprout.
Personally I think Dungeon Fantasy has the potential to become a perennial. Sure, SJG is feeling cautious about the rpg market these days. Rpgs usually need to justify themselves against D&D in some way to find their market. DF offers a cheaper point of entry, more flexible and realistic rules, and a bit of self aware humour. I don't think it's quite enough to close the deal for a new player who doesn't know GURPS but I don't know what it would be. I think the boxed set game feels more like a game but perhaps a book would be a cheaper product and a Space Opera or Supers introductory book would be a feasible second attempt. I'm pretty sure GURPS fans would crowd fund it but I don't know if the profits from such a venture would be enough to convince SJG to attempt it.
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http://www.neutralgroundgames.com |
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