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Old 06-06-2018, 04:29 PM   #41
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Note that while making sure all values are represented in their "appropriate" minimum quantities feels random, it is actually less random and less like real die rolls. I think this is what you were alluding to by putting quotes around "should" but it's really easy for humans to misconstrue what IS random and what FEELS random as our intuition is generally very bad at this. (I am close to graduating with my BS in prob/stat and studying for the actuarial probability exam, so I'm in this every day. More math upon request.)
Pretty much. And that's why I allowed the sheet to be used both ways. Sometimes when people say they want "random" they don't want true randomness, but rather something that approximates it fairly well. For instance, on a table like this I would assume that most people would like to at least have a chance of getting a critical success and a critical failure. With true randomness there's a chance that you don't get that in any given sheet, and it's not even a small chance since in a small sampling like this a 3 or 18 are only expected to show up slightly more than three times each so it's not hard to move a couple standard deviations to one side or the other and have none or 6+ show up.


EDIT ONE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
For obfuscation purposes, you could make one that is just the coordinates randomized. Then, one person could have a bunch of no-dice-required rolls where "looking ahead" requires a bit of work. Most players are trustworthy enough to not do that. I think that might be good enough for the OP's needs. Then each player could have a sheet with a series of coordinates and a lookup sheet to tell them what the result is. Then, there's no need for a rule about "if it's been used" or a third party of number-picking.
I misread that the first time, but on rereading I see what you're getting at. That's a pretty good idea. If you're worried about the players "looking ahead" you can always have Player A call out the letters from his "key" for Player B to look up on his result table, and vice versa. That way any cheating would require them to collude with one another. If your players are untrustworthy enough to collude to cheat at that point you have bigger issues at the table.

So I've updated the sheet so that the drop-down for dice now has an "AZ" option; when picked it fills the field with a randomly distributed set of coordinates (each coordinate pair is listed once somewhere). Then you can just read down the table as you use the dice rolls up.


EDIT TWO:
An additional idea for fodder: if you print to PDF with a key at the top and 3d6 roll on the bottom and then swap the tables (key on bottom, 3d6 on top) and print to PDF again, then print the PDFs as front and back of the same page, you can cut the sheets in half and have the key on the front and lookup table on the back of each half-sheet. Or print up a bunch with lookup tables top & bottom then print them again with Keys top & bottom for the same result.

EDIT THREE:
Just added a macro to the excel version. It's not necessary, but if you enable it the sheet will automatically recalculate every time you print or print preview, that way you don't have to manually recalculate if you want to print multiple sheets.

I also just put up a Sample PDF 1 and sample PDF 2. The first has 10 pages with 3d6 on the front and AZ keys on the back, 10 pages with 2d6 & 1d6 on the front and AZ keys on the back. The second has 10 pages with 3d6 & 2d6 on the front and 1d6 & AZ key on the back.
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 06-06-2018 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:25 PM   #42
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

Did some edits to the last post. I also just updated the spreadsheets one more time, this time adding two more tables (one more printed page) to the sheet, allowing you to print front and back in one go, or just to print twice as many sheets at a time.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:07 AM   #43
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

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Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
Situation: Road trip with the kids who ask if we can play DFRPG in the car. They remember their characters' key stats pretty well. I'm pretty good at making up scenarios on the fly. We have no dice and no digital tech.

What's the most elegant solution for determining success/failure without dice?
Do you have pencils and paper?
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

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Do you have pencils and paper?
Usually, yes. Though it should be noted that I was the driver. My son, however, could work with pencil and paper.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:53 AM   #45
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

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Usually, yes. Though it should be noted that I was the driver. My son, however, could work with pencil and paper.
In that case, I would use the Lone Wolf game book method. Draw a grid of squares on a piece of paper. Write numbers randomly in the squares. The person who's "rolling" closes his or her eyes and selects a number by pointing it with a pencil. That's the general idea; you get the picture. I'd recommend doing the same as the books and having multiple dice sheets.

This method is a real hit with children. For some reason, they seem to like it more than dice. As a kid, I know I loved this method. It's how we "played" D&D in church during the Satanic Panic even though we probably could have gotten away with dice.


EDIT: I just remembered that's how two of my friends and I played GURPS in the car when I was in the eighth grade. Their dad played along as a "ghost adviser". It was awesome. Made the 14-hour drive one of the best parts of the trip, and that's really saying something!
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Last edited by Stripe; 06-07-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:17 AM   #46
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

Slight necro here, but there's always chits.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

As long as this thread is back from the dead...

We just went on another, longer, road trip, and I was prepared. I created dice tins, similar to ericbsmith's suggestion (post #30). I used old IKEA magnetic spice tins. I created three tins, one for me and one for each of my two kids. They loved them because they got to pick the colors of dice in each container. (I used the 3-2-1 color scheme, as recommended.) This worked fabulously.

As a backup, mostly in case the tins were too loud while the toddler was sleeping, I printed a few pages from ericbsmith's Excel Spreadsheet. I was also planning to create a grid to try the Lone Wolf system recommended by Stripe, but haven't gotten to it yet.

Whenever I wasn't on driving duty, we gamed, and it was a ton of fun. Standard DFRPG rules applied to the eternal White Plume Mountain. I forgot how fun that adventure is, especially for kids who don't question where Sir Bluto stores his groceries.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:11 AM   #48
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Default Re: Dice odds without dice

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Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
We just went on another, longer, road trip, and I was prepared. I created dice tins, similar to ericbsmith's suggestion (post #30). I used old IKEA magnetic spice tins. I created three tins, one for me and one for each of my two kids. They loved them because they got to pick the colors of dice in each container. (I used the 3-2-1 color scheme, as recommended.) This worked fabulously.
Nice. I got the Slime containers I pointed to in my post and they worked perfectly as well. They're big enough to allow six 12mm dice to roll and are more clear/less opaque than the pictures make them seem (they're slightly opaque, but only slightly).
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