The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by philreed

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ainst-humanity

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...window-craftin

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...450/gloomhaven

I've never seen those in my B&M. However, I will note that their online store lists Gloomhaven and Sagrada, but they're currently out of print with no set date for restocking (which doesn't mean much). They've never carried Cards Against Humanity though (for whatever reasons).

However... Scythe and Gloomhaven were a big enough hit to put those designers into "the mainstream'. They've gone on to make and market other games without needing Kickstarter (My Little Scythe, Wingspan, Charterstone all from Stonemaier Games) or at least continue reprinting the game well beyond the Kickstarter fulfillment (Gloomhaven is on it's fourth printing).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...egmaier/scythe

That's currently sitting on the shelf at my B&M, but as I note above, I really don't consider them a "Kickstarter" publisher at this point. Especially not Stonemaier Games. I mean you could argue that with Cephlofair (Gloomhaven) as he's done nothing without KS backing, but Stonemaier has 2 games published and sold without KS backing (Wingspan is coming early next year).



So, sure, KS backed games have hit the shelves in my B&M (and I can now name some more, all Stonemaier Games designed), but my point was, if not really worded as such, "the legions of dross* that hit and succeed on Kickstarter do not take up a significant shelf space in B&M stores".

But, yeah, I do agree that KS has changed the market place. Maybe for the better.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I've never seen those in my B&M. However, I will note that their online store lists Gloomhaven and Sagrada, but they're currently out of print with no set date for restocking (which doesn't mean much).

Cards against Humanity and I believe, Gloomhaven were on the shelf of the local walmart yesterday when I was there. Alongside Exploding Kittens.

There were about a dozen other card games that I don't recall the names of on those same shelves, and the only thing I remember about them is that except for color and maybe font changes, they could have been interchangeable (gloomhaven was on a different shelf, with catan, pandemic and ticket to ride).

[philreed]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I've never seen those in my B&M. However, I will note that their online store lists Gloomhaven and Sagrada, but they're currently out of print with . . .

What is the name of your local store?

[philreed]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

. . . but my point was, if not really worded as such, "the legions of dross* that hit and succeed on Kickstarter do not take up a significant shelf space in B&M stores".

If this is true, then you have the weirdest game store on the planet. Many of the games in most stores these days were on Kickstarter. A few examples of games at our local store(s):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...quest-from-aeg

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...loding-kittens

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/zombicide

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...igners-edition

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...osaur-island-1

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...kbuilding-game

[GM Joe]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I actually think there will be no crash, just a shrinking (or 'scarily' a consolidating of the houses - I'm looking at you Asmodee‡) of the big development houses.

Either way, too much production for the market means ultimately production has to shrink. So a lot of industry folks are likely to see their incomes shrink or disappear, one way or another.

Like they say, history doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes.

[David Johansen]

Yeah, kickstarter's weird. Most game stores need the month to pay that the distributors give them. They then pay by credit card and have another month to pay. This gives a two month window to turn over the product and make something off it. Any thing that takes longer than that needs to be blown out and blown out fast to keep cash flowing or they quickly get into a death spiral. This is why stuff that iterates regularly like comics or Magic cards work so well for the business model. The problem with kickstarter is that it ties up capital for at least a year on an outright gamble of completion. Add to that that the average retailer pledge is $500 USD and it's an awful lot of money to tie up on a product that might never arrive and might have sold out the interest in in on the kickstarter. Though that does create a weird situation where it's the promotional items and add ons that you can sell rather than the core game.


Having tried to support lines in detail and promote those lines for seven years I can only tell you that it didn't work for me. You just wind up with too much dead product. Sometimes you find an opportunity to sell off that dead product at a profit. The collapse of Alien Dungeon created an opportunity to sell out all my All's Quiet On The Martian Front stock a couple years ago and now Prodos dropping the Warzone Resurrection line has given me an opportunity to clear out that product. But these situations are the exception not the norm. The simple reality is that there are a handful of evergreen lines in the industry and everything else is single instance these days.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

The simple reality is that there are a handful of evergreen lines in the industry and everything else is single instance these days.

Truth! No argument here.

[Kalzazz]

Last time I went to the local game store (during the Munchkin Supers event) I saw very very few games or products at all actually on display

Bunches of people, but I think the snacks and tournament and event fees and orders of product are producing money, not actual stocked inventory

They also in their new location discontinued parking, so I haven't gone back. My willingness to walk a few blocks to visit a store is around zero

I can't imagine hauling my DMing supply suitcase that far, I'd be dead on the sidewalk

If parking discontinuation is a major FLGS trend books on pdf majje a ton of sense

[Andrew Hackard]

Kalzazz, I don't think your experience is typical. Most stores that I've visited have stock on shelves and at least some parking for patrons - although I do admit, "enough parking" seems to be difficult for a lot of stores to manage.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

The problem with kickstarter is that it ties up capital for at least a year on an outright gamble of completion. Add to that that the average retailer pledge is $500 USD and it's an awful lot of money to tie up on a product that might never arrive and might have sold out the interest in in on the kickstarter. Though that does create a weird situation where it's the promotional items and add ons that you can sell rather than the core game.

This is an old fashioned way of a Kickstarter Pledge for retailers.

I have seen Kickstarters that require a minimum deposit level pledge vs actually paying for all those games up front.