Ritual Path Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

[vitruvian]

Protection from Evil
Greater Control Magic [5]
Lesser Control Spirit [5]
Lesser Control Undead [5]
Area: 1' radius [2]
Bonuses: +1 to active defense rolls against evil attackers [5]; +1 to resistance rolls against evil magic and powers [5]
Duration: 1 hour [3]
Weight: 1000 lbs [4]
Cost: 102 (117)
In addition to the defensive bonuses, magical creatures below the weight limit simply cannot approach the subject within the area of effect unless they can break the spell. The subject cannot themselves approach such creatures and make contact without forfeiting this protection, though.

Read Languages
Greater Strengthen Mind [3]
Altered Traits: Full literacy in any language [3]
Duration: 20 minutes [2]
Cost: 24 (39)

Read Languages
Greater Strengthen Mind [3]
Lesser Sense Magic [2]
Altered Traits: Full literacy in any required magical script [3]
Duration: 20 minutes [2]
Cost: 30 (45)

Shield
Greater Create Energy [6]
Altered Traits: Damage Resistance 4 [20]
Bonus: +2 to Active Defenses [10]: +2 to Active Defenses vs. ranged [4]
Duration: 30 minutes [2]
Cost: 126 (141)

Sleep
Greater Control Mind [5]
Affliction: Sleep [30]
Area: 5 yards [4]
Duration: 4d4 x 10 minutes [4]
Range: 80 yards [10]
Cost: 159 (174)

[vierasmarius]

I think part of the reason that these spells are coming out so expenseive is that most of them require a Greater effect. The RPM system was designed for a world in which magic is "secret", and it seems that the Greater effect markup is there mostly to discourage showy spells. This might not be the case for a DF world in which magic is widely known. I could see this variant RPM either reducing or removing the energy increase for Greater effects, and/or increasing the "threshold" of what qualifies as Greater vs Lesser. Any thoughts on how this would impact (positively or negatively) spellcasting in DF?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

I think part of the reason that these spells are coming out so expenseive is that most of them require a Greater effect. The RPM system was designed for a world in which magic is "secret", and it seems that the Greater effect markup is there mostly to discourage showy spells. This might not be the case for a DF world in which magic is widely known. I could see this variant RPM either reducing or removing the energy increase for Greater effects, and/or increasing the "threshold" of what qualifies as Greater vs Lesser. Any thoughts on how this would impact (positively or negatively) spellcasting in DF?

I'm thinking what might be reasonable would be to preserve the distinction between Greater and Lesser Effects, since they involve not only how blatant things are but actual power and utility as well, but instead of having a multiplier for the entire cost of the ritual based on how many are involved, simply double the cost for any Greater Effects themselves. Since the multiplier would then never apply to other modifiers such as Duration, Damage, Range, Area, Weight, etc., costs would stay much more under control.

Apart from some of them having high costs, what do you think of my takes on the Blue Box spells so far?

[dataweaver]

The current multipliers of 1/3/5/7/… could be reduced to 1/2/3/4/… or even 1/1.5/2/2.5/… in a setting that's supposed to be more amenable to flashy magic. Note, though, that this also makes it easier to use Crossroads to attack enemies from far away, since you aren't as dependent on existing gates or weak points in reality.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Apart from some of them having high costs, what do you think of my takes on the Blue Box spells so far?

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by Blue Box or what it has to do with Sherlock Holmes, but they look like standard D&D spells to me. Good enough, though I'd have built some differently (my version of Magic Missiles used Lesser Control Energy, for example).

The way I'd alter the Greater Effects system to work better in DF is to completely do away with the 'anything flashy is a Greater Effect' rule and instead have what a 'Greater Effect' is be based more on how powerful it is. So, for example, a 1d cr attack that has to deal with armor would be a lesser effect, no matter if it's subtle or if it manifests as a glowing ball of light, but calling down lightning in a thunderstorm would be a Greater Effect because it deals wicked amounts of damage (though it'd still be easier than one where you just toss it out of your hands).

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Langy

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by Blue Box or what it has to do with Sherlock Holmes, but they look like standard D&D spells to me. Good enough, though I'd have built some differently (my version of Magic Missiles used Lesser Control Energy, for example).

Not Sherlock Holmes, but J. Eric Holmes, editor of one of the first D&D boxed sets:

http://www.retroroleplaying.com/book/holmes-basic-set

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon...#1977_printing

Not quite Chainmail and the supplements that followed earlier in the 70s, but pretty far back there, and Magic Missile at that point was still described as a magically conjured arrow rather than a bolt of force.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I'm thinking what might be reasonable would be to preserve the distinction between Greater and Lesser Effects, since they involve not only how blatant things are but actual power and utility as well, but instead of having a multiplier for the entire cost of the ritual based on how many are involved, simply double the cost for any Greater Effects themselves. Since the multiplier would then never apply to other modifiers such as Duration, Damage, Range, Area, Weight, etc., costs would stay much more under control.

Yeah, that could do it too. However, that means that there's not much difference between Lesser and Greater effects. I'd be more for reducing the overall cost increase, but still applying to all components of the spell. Also, what qualifies as Greater is ultimately up to the GM. If I were running a DF game with RPM, I'd probably only apply Greater to truly world-shattering spells (long-duration curses, wide-area plagues, dimension-spanning summons, teleportation, etc).

Actually, perhaps for DF we could introduce a third "tier" of effect, between Lesser and Greater, with a cost modifier of x1.5/2/3/5 etc. Most spells that would normally be Greater effects would be downgraded to Moderate. This would make blatant attack spells more feasible, while reigning in dimension-hopping and other really dramatic effects. This might be getting too complicated though...

I think it would really help if we establish stricter guidelines for Lesser vs Greater effects in DF. This is especially important because it's such a tactical game style, in which highly flexible and unpredictable magic is less emphasized.

Apart from some of them having high costs, what do you think of my takes on the Blue Box spells so far?

They look good, but (in keeping with my above comments) I'd be liable to place the breakpoint between Lesser and Greater a bit higher (for instance, I'd call Read Languages and Read Magic Lesser effects).

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Yeah, that could do it too. However, that means that there's not much difference between Lesser and Greater effects. I'd be more for reducing the overall cost increase, but still applying to all components of the spell. Also, what qualifies as Greater is ultimately up to the GM. If I were running a DF game with RPM, I'd probably only apply Greater to truly world-shattering spells (long-duration curses, wide-area plagues, dimension-spanning summons, teleportation, etc).

Most of the time, it's up to the GM. In a few cases such as Crossroads, the distinction is spelled out a bit more directly.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Actually, perhaps for DF we could introduce a third "tier" of effect, between Lesser and Greater, with a cost modifier of x1.5/2/3/5 etc. Most spells that would normally be Greater effects would be downgraded to Moderate. This would make blatant attack spells more feasible, while reigning in dimension-hopping and other really dramatic effects. This might be getting too complicated though...

Since the current pricing scheme for Greater Effects is linear (x3/5/7/9/…), I wouldn't want an in-between tier to use a geometric progression (x1.5/2/3/5/7/10/15/…).

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

I think it would really help if we establish stricter guidelines for Lesser vs Greater effects in DF. This is especially important because it's such a tactical game style, in which highly flexible and unpredictable magic is less emphasized.

…which kind of makes RPM counter to the spirit of DF, since it is in essence a system for highly flexible and unpredictable magic.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

…which kind of makes RPM counter to the spirit of DF, since it is in essence a system for highly flexible and unpredictable magic.

I think if we encourage wizards to prepare Charms and Conditional Spells ahead of time using found or bought Grimoires, it'll help them fit the mold of the DnD-esque Wizard. This might just mean adding additional penalties for non-rote spells, while relaxing some of the current restrictions (such as the Greater cost increase) for prepared spells.

[dataweaver]

Yeah; I'm not saying that it can't be made to work. But the steps needed to do so really cut into RPM's potential. RPM is, in essence, "GURPS Mage done right", with all of the flexibility that you would expect from Mage combined with the mystical feel that has always been a staple of the Path/Book Magic system since its earliest days in GURPS Voodoo: the Shadow War. Paring its versatility down so that it can fit within the confines of a D&D parody leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather find some way to keep the versatility without trampling the themes and mood of Dungeon Fantasy if at all possible.