Judging combat encounters

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by benz72

How do you manage it?

It's a multi-step process:

1. Keep track of precisely how much Bash-O-Matic power the PCs have, and in what areas.

2. Give most important NPC opponents just enough Absorb-O-Matic power to soak up most of the bashing. Yes, this does mean tailoring encounters to the PCs' current abilities and power level instead of being a dire simulationist, saying that the bad guys are "like so" no matter what, and letting the PCs suffer if they aren't up to it or yawn if it's a cakewalk. This will make fights challenging.

3. Once in a while, insert baddies who aren't meant to pose a real challenge. The PCs should blow through these in seconds. This is fine -- it's intended to reassure the players that yes, the PCs are truly Bash-O-Matic in the grand scheme.

4. Also once in a while, insert baddies who cannot easily be bashed aside, for whatever reason. These guys take strategy and ultimately luck to defeat, and probably can't be defeated without consuming limited resources (ammo, batteries, healing potions, FP, and even character points spent to adjust success rolls) and/or seriously harming some of the PCs (killing them, if they don't plan and strategize). These encounters generate the "Woah -- that was close!" moments.

Alternate 2, 3, and 4 so that the heroes know that they're badasses, but also know that they can have their bad asses handed to them if they take victory for granted. If you go with 2 all the time, it'll eventually feel like 3. If you go with 3 all the time, you'll get boredom and no memorable war stories. If you go with 4 all the time, your players will hate you!

[Blackseasofinfinity]

Originally Posted by Kromm

. . .Yes, this does mean tailoring encounters to the PCs' current abilities and power level instead of being a dire simulationist, saying that the bad guys are "like so" no matter what, and letting the PCs suffer if they aren't up to it or yawn if it's a cakewalk. This will make fights challenging.

I see the point of this (this is coming from a Player, not a GM, now), but God, it makes me sneer. Reminds me of the new Elder Scrolls game: the mobs of the world level up with you and seem to know your weaknesses, so you're always challenged. . . even by newb-stage guards.

But yes, I see why you're saying it; I just wish it didn't need to be done.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Blackseasofinfinity

I see the point of this (this is coming from a Player, not a GM, now), but God, it makes me sneer. Reminds me of the new Elder Scrolls game: the mobs of the world level up with you and seem to know your weaknesses, so you're always challenged. . . even by newb-stage guards.

But yes, I see why you're saying it; I just wish it didn't need to be done.

The thing is, I'm not saying, "the mobs of the world level up with you and seem to know your weaknesses, so you're always challenged. . . even by newb-stage guards." In fact, all of the previously encountered Generic Bad Guys stay at their old power levels. Foes who provide major challenges today (my point #4) will be even matches in a few months (my point #2) and fodder in a year or two (my point #3). They don't change with the PCs' power level. They're always there to come back to and smear when the players need an ego boost.

What I'm saying is that new major foes, hitherto unencountered, and Named Bad Guys, who actually earn points and improve just like PCs, get progressively tougher. This need not be forced or disruptive to WSOD. It's quite simple: until the PCs demonstrated that they were contenders, potential bosses with really tough missions didn't see them having much of a chance, so said bosses didn't hire/blackmail/order the PCs to get involved. Similarly, until the PCs showed their grit, the really bad guys didn't take notice of them, whether because the PCs' handlers never sent the PCs along or because the villains didn't feel threatened by the PCs. But of course as the PCs bash tougher foes and pull off more impressive coups (my point #4 again), both patron and enemy take note, and the PCs are expected to play to a tougher crowd to score the big reward.

Small rewards -- ego boosts -- neither go away nor become tougher to get.

[HeroPenguin]

Originally Posted by Blackseasofinfinity

I see the point of this (this is coming from a Player, not a GM, now), but God, it makes me sneer. Reminds me of the new Elder Scrolls game: the mobs of the world level up with you and seem to know your weaknesses, so you're always challenged. . . even by newb-stage guards.

But yes, I see why you're saying it; I just wish it didn't need to be done.

I kind of agree. If you're advancing but the old challenges never get any easier, why not just cut out advancement altogether, since it apparently is engineered to have absolutely no effect.

Good thing Kromm wasn't talking about that stuff, eh? XD

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by Blackseasofinfinity

I see the point of this (this is coming from a Player, not a GM, now), but God, it makes me sneer. Reminds me of the new Elder Scrolls game: the mobs of the world level up with you and seem to know your weaknesses, so you're always challenged. . . even by newb-stage guards.

But yes, I see why you're saying it; I just wish it didn't need to be done.

Okay, I know I'm reviving an old thread, and I don't know if this poster is around to respond to me. However, I wanted to add my two cents here (because I'm like that...)

You DO have to remember that, in many situations, the enemies do learn. If you're known for your two-handed sword of Slaying, the opponents won't want to jump in front of it; they'll want to be known for their Standing Back and Shooting you in the Back.

If you're known for your magical abilities, the enemies will want a counter. If you're known for your artillery, the enemy will want to find a way to take out the artillery. It's really that simple; if you have a special attack, then the opponents will want an effective defense or offense, depending on the scenario.

Naturally, it doesn't mean that everyone will fall for it. Take a game like Deus Ex, and make the AI much more realistic. You go up against the MiBs and major bad guys that actually *know* about you and are *INFORMED* as to your abilities, then realistically, they would know how to counter you; they might use, say, area-effect EMP (and concussive, naturally) weapons to try to take out your nanites ASAP, and would be looking for any sort of counter, making them difficult encounters.

But then you run into a bunch of gangsters in, say, a subway, who DON'T know about you. So you wipe them out (whether knocking them out, subduing them, or just killing them depending on character concept). Then maybe you go over and deal with the drug dealer down the way, for the good of the block; maybe let him off with a warning (and a broken arm), or just kill him.

Then you go back to fighting the major bad guys; no MiBs or people with secret information, but instead the UNATCO guys. They're well-armed and have good training, but they aren't equipped to counter you, but instead to counter the average NSF terrorist. You see how this goes? You cycle as the adventure goes on, from badass that wipes out the gangstas, to the badass that counters the counter-terrorist unit (albeit gets out of it with a bullet wound or two), to the badass that actually stood up to a squad of MiB and even managed to kill one before you crawled into a sewer to try to escape!

All of these plot devices can be found in any good movie. Just watch a James Bond flick (though that may be a little too cinematic, regardless, you can achieve similar results with a realistic campaign).

Anyways, that's all I have to say. I know it's not much of a contribution for committing thread necromancy, but what can I say?

[shinygm]

Also keep in mind, *local* TL, fame, and area knowledge can give the GM a reasonable idea of how much, and how likely your villains/foils know about your crew of heroes (or anti-heroes). I figure, the reason you are given points for fame is because that means your enemies know more about you. This means the heroes need to do more prep! If you aren't sure, do the math and roll 'em out. I use an encounter roll if I'm feeling uninspired and want to keep it "random" that day.

Another indicator that your crew might need a wake up call is if they are, say, not covering up tracks or are making unnecessarily loud statements (both figurative and literal) in public places.

I'm not afraid of no zombie thread...