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Old 05-03-2016, 08:33 AM   #1
mloiii
 
Join Date: May 2016
Default Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

Hello guys,
I played Gurps for some time but never touched this subject before.
I made a character with engineer and armoury skills and then I started to wonder. How far can I invent/design new things with engineer (on TL4) without gadgeteer advantage for example what rifles can I design/craft?
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

The basic invention rules detailed in Basic Set: Campaigns are the same regardless of whether you have Gadgeteer or not. However, Gadgeteers IIRC have bonuses or benefits (even if those "benefits" are just fewer penalties) during the design phase.

Note that to design an item, you'll want the Engineer skill. Construction skills like Carpentry, Machining, Armoury, Mechanic, etc. are used to build the prototype of an invention or something made from existing designs.

This help?
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

Standard invention rules start on page B473. These cover more realistic invention at your own tech level, or perhaps one higher.

For firearms to reach TL 5, you also have to invent new sorts of ammunition. (Cartridges, then brass cartridges, percussion caps, then integrated primers, smokeless powder, etc.)
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:12 AM   #4
mloiii
 
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

Thanks guys those answers totally solved my question.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

Something that's been alluded to here, but is worth stating explicitly, is that a normal inventor can only invent items of his own TL or one TL higher. One of the things the Gadgeteer advantage unlocks is the ability to go to TL+2 and above (though at severe skill penalties).
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

…what about “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court”? Was Hank Morgan truly a Gadgeteer, or was he a regular inventor who was using Engineering/TL5 while living in a TL3 setting? Or the efforts of the West Virginian protagonists transported to the middle of the Thirty Years War in 1632 to establish an industrial base capable of maintaining and disseminating as much of their 1999-era tech as possible?

I've always viewed it as Gadgeteer being strictly about “your inventiveness is cinematic rather than realistic”, reducing penalties and speeding up the process; time-lost engineers using their high-tech skills in a low-tech setting doesn't strike me as innately cinematic. This would be invention via the High Tech Unusual Background, not Gadgeteer.

Conversely, using Engineering/TL8 to invent TL10+ inventions (or even TL9 inventons, without a substantial penalty) does strike me as innately cinematic, since you're trying to invent something beyond your experience. Is that what you mean by Gadgeteering letting you go to TL+2 or above?
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Difference between engineer and gadgeteer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
…what about “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court”? Was Hank Morgan truly a Gadgeteer, or was he a regular inventor who was using Engineering/TL5 while living in a TL3 setting? Or the efforts of the West Virginian protagonists transported to the middle of the Thirty Years War in 1632 to establish an industrial base capable of maintaining and disseminating as much of their 1999-era tech as possible?

I've always viewed it as Gadgeteer being strictly about “your inventiveness is cinematic rather than realistic”, reducing penalties and speeding up the process; time-lost engineers using their high-tech skills in a low-tech setting doesn't strike me as innately cinematic. This would be invention via the High Tech Unusual Background, not Gadgeteer.
Normally that would be true, and it's clearly true in the Ring of Fire, where the unavailability of necessary materials and components is a constantly recurring motif. It may not be true for Hank Morgan. His ability to come up with TL5 devices (or perhaps TL6; didn't he have electric lights and telephones?) seems to have exceeded the realistic limits of materials, and perhaps been faster than was realistically plausible. Perhaps he had Gadgeteer with a limitation "Only to re-create his own native technology."
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