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Old 10-12-2016, 12:05 PM   #11
evileeyore
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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Sorry, typing on a cat. full of typo.
Is that one of those new digital cats? USB or Bluetooth?
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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Is that one of those new digital cats? USB or Bluetooth?
She's a big old analogue model, the kind that expands to take up your entire desk and then some.
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Old 10-12-2016, 02:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

So I'm designing a Dome of Protection Sorcery spell, that surrounds the user with a semi-spherical wall of force. The physical aspect of the dome is fairly easy (Crushing IA, No Wounding, Overhead so it curves at the top). I'd like the dome to be centered around the user all the time, so that it moves when they do. Does emanation achieve this by default, or do I need mobile (at least 5 yards/sec worth) and homing? If emanation doesn't keep the dome centered around the user, why would it be worth -20% when reduced range 0.1x would give me a range of 10 yards and be worth -30%?

Secondly, is there any way to increase the ratio of HP to DR for Walls? I could imagine some Walls that take a lot of damage to break down, but that aren't resistant to injury at all (A wall of non-sticky webs for example).
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Old 10-12-2016, 02:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

Emanation would give you a dome that's centered on you that stays there (it won't follow you if you move, and you'll be trapped in it).

Emanation and Mobile would give you a dome that moves when you Concentrate to Move it.

Aura would give you a dome that just automatically stays centered on you.
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Old 10-12-2016, 02:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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Protection and Warning uses No Wounding, for -50%. See Force Wall, page 7. " Slams and collisions damage the wall, but
not the collider, as for Force Dome."

EDIT: You have to read the full note for Force dome. It's not a special effect for Walls, it's a special effect for the DR Advantage BUT ONLY in combination with Affects Others, Area Effect, and Force FIeld.

None of that is with regards ti Innate Attack and wall.

Sorry, typing on a cat. full of typo.
QFT; Bruno is 100% right.
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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If emanation doesn't keep the dome centered around the user, why would it be worth -20% when reduced range 0.1x would give me a range of 10 yards and be worth -30%?
First, Emanation is written primarily from the POV of a normal AOE effect, not a Wall which isn't necessarily even demarking an area and is generally a little wonky as an attack.

So, with that in mind, lets start with regular attacks:

Reduced Range does not make you immune to your own attack. Emanation keeps you safe and surrounds you with your attack. Emanation still requires an Attack action and changes nothing about the duration of an effect. Emanation on Burning Attack (Area Effect) doesn't give you a "hands free" burning aura, it means that every turn you Attack, you can have the AOE splat down around you safely. It's sort of a pulse thingy. It only covers controlling the target zone, not anything to do with mobility.

Aura makes an attack "hands free". It reacts to things, which can mean in the case of an attack you can produce far more attacks than normal without ever taking an Attack action, if foes are foolish enough to trigger it (you also get triggers when you slam people). Aura of course requires the Melee Attack limitation.

Aura + Melee Attack + AOE is the combo that takes the "hands free" effect and applies it over an area around you. This is the combination many people actually wanted when they looked at Emanation. Particularly if they start wondering why it's a limitation instead of an enhancement :)

Next post: walls.
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

So now on walls.

First: You don't need Overhead to make a dome. The orientation and shape of your wall is arbitrary and under your control from use to use. Just keep the surface area the same and you're fine (check out an online calculator to find the surface area of your sphere quickly, there's lots).

As noted, the Aura + Melee Attack combo is what you need to tack on to an AOE for it to become a switchable effect rather than a transient one-attack effect.

But this means that it applies its "attack" to any valid target on its own, hands free and this gets weird with Walls. You don't attack anyone with a Wall, and it has no target to walk into the zone to trigger the Aura to "attack" it. So we're really already a little off the reservation here.

This is a lot more like the Force Dome spell from Sorcery: Protection and Warning spells (actually, nearly identical). That uses the DR/Force-field/AOE/Affects Others combination which makes a lot more sense in this situation. This also has the benefit that you can make it Ablative or Semi-Ablative DR, which sounds like something you want. Or Hardened.
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
So I'm designing a Dome of Protection Sorcery spell, that surrounds the user with a semi-spherical wall of force. The physical aspect of the dome is fairly easy (Crushing IA, No Wounding, Overhead so it curves at the top). I'd like the dome to be centered around the user all the time, so that it moves when they do. Does emanation achieve this by default, or do I need mobile (at least 5 yards/sec worth) and homing? If emanation doesn't keep the dome centered around the user, why would it be worth -20% when reduced range 0.1x would give me a range of 10 yards and be worth -30%?

Secondly, is there any way to increase the ratio of HP to DR for Walls? I could imagine some Walls that take a lot of damage to break down, but that aren't resistant to injury at all (A wall of non-sticky webs for example).
I think You'd be far better building it as DR with Affects Others (Powers p.107), Force Field and Area Effect. If you stick to the Wall though, I wouldn't take Overhead to it, it's clearly meant for an attack that strikes from above. I'd personally call it a special feature.
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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I think You'd be far better building it as DR with Affects Others (Powers p.107), Force Field and Area Effect. If you stick to the Wall though, I wouldn't take Overhead to it, it's clearly meant for an attack that strikes from above. I'd personally call it a special feature.
I like the way a wall has both HP and DR, can be broken down over time, and keeps people out. I'm sure this can all be accomplished by basing it on DR, but it just seems like Wall should be a more direct way to achieve this.

In general Wall seems like it should have been it's own advantage instead of based on IA, in the same way that afflictions and binding are different. Creating a wall of stuff is a super and wizard classic, but it's difficult to do if you aren't familiar with how enhancements and limitations work.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Innate attack with the wall enhancement

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In general Wall seems like it should have been it's own advantage instead of based on IA, in the same way that afflictions and binding are different. Creating a wall of stuff is a super and wizard classic, but it's difficult to do if you aren't familiar with how enhancements and limitations work.
I agree, although I see the logic that led to walls being spun off from Innate Attack in the first place (walls of fire, I'm blaming you).

We have a bunch of different "toggles" for walls, that I can see
  • Does it slow or block movement? or not at all?
  • Does it attack the area around it actively, or not?
    • Related to the previous two, does it deal/take damage in a collision?
  • Does it have a fixed shape (only a sphere), a moderately controllable shape (must be upright and anchored between two solid posts, or must be on solid ground, or etc), or can it be any shape, any orientation (horizontal plane hovering in mid-air, a cube, tie it in a mobius loop...)
  • Is it moveable? Is it moveable by the caster, is it moveable by others?
  • Durability of the wall is another thing, HP and DR. But like Binding there's also what kinds of things it can be damaged by.
  • Does it have Injury Tolerances? What if it's a wall of meat and not Immune to Metabolic Hazards?
  • And of course size/area.
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