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Old 09-08-2016, 05:20 AM   #61
AurochDigital
 
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman View Post
...just to be clear, I am an unofficial OGRE Fanboy. Everything spewing from my imagination is not endorsed, condoned, or recognized in any official capacity, ect. ect. by SJGs as anything but the meandering, rudderless musings of said unofficial fanboy.

Any thoughts about players being able to name their units, at least the OGREs?
That feature may be beyond superfluous, but it would be pretty cool to name a Mark 5 "PINK" for example...Ashley, I'm thinking of you. :)
We agree you want to be able to name Ogres, be cause why would you not?? So that's going to be in there!

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
I think there's three main things to hack:

1) The look-and-feel - skinning the game, already pretty common.
2) The decisions a player makes. That lets us hack new AIs for the game. It's thematically vital and really fun to fiddle with. Possibly also a way to port the front end to new platforms.
3) The rules of the game. That means altering what the game engine allows, which is probably half or more of the traffic on this forum.

I think that lets us hack everything...

Skinning the game is already part of the common art.

I think 2) and 3) could be done with two sides of the same interface. It'd be a lot for AurochDigital to commit to up front, but would pay off down the line.
So we're building an Ogre Scenario Editor that would allow the creation of scenarios and they can be shared via Steam Workshop. What we've found and as you rightly point out, that it's best to build such things incrementally and then add functionality as the community requests it. So core will be making maps and scenarios. Then later on we can look to add more such as an AI editor and so on.

Thanks.
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:22 AM   #62
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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If the OGRE AI is of the "learning" variety (neural network, GA hybrid, support vector machine, etc.) then that's how you'd teach them. You'd make/breed a few that were decent, then build an automated system that pits them against each other and tweaks the winners. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you've got Excercise K in real life.
You will be able to pit AI ogres vs each other. I think like the Terminator T-800 (Model 101) they don't have the capacity to 'learn' as we humans do, else we may unwittingly end the world.... ;)
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Old 09-08-2016, 07:36 AM   #63
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Originally Posted by AurochDigital View Post
We've played it (of course) but as we're doing the GEV rules too, that have much more complexity (Overun!) that needs to be handled, so we're approaching the game with a clean slate really.
When you get a group of very smart people working very hard on a problem, amazing things often happen. I think everyone's looking forward to playing this when it's finished!
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:11 AM   #64
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We've played it (of course) but as we're doing the GEV rules too, that have much more complexity (Overun!) that needs to be handled, so we're approaching the game with a clean slate really.
Overruns aren't really that bad. It's a game-within-a-game, not too hard to code up, and fairly easy to pull out and visualize. A view that lines up each side's units in a row and lets them face off and blaze away should do.

Overruns have a predictable (and bloody) outcome, so an AI's decision to start one fits a minimax choice. There's some interaction with movement rules and stacking limits, handled outside the overrun.

I think the bigger challenge in GEV is handling all the details of terrain. Are those marines on the bridge, swimming on the surface, or underwater? How do you show each state clearly through the map clutter? How do you code up the rules for the transitions? How does the display show the players that the marines can dive down and be safe or stay on the bridge and keep their road bonus? How does the AI decide where to put them?
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:39 PM   #65
AurochDigital
 
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
Overruns aren't really that bad. It's a game-within-a-game, not too hard to code up, and fairly easy to pull out and visualize. A view that lines up each side's units in a row and lets them face off and blaze away should do.

Overruns have a predictable (and bloody) outcome, so an AI's decision to start one fits a minimax choice. There's some interaction with movement rules and stacking limits, handled outside the overrun.

I think the bigger challenge in GEV is handling all the details of terrain. Are those marines on the bridge, swimming on the surface, or underwater? How do you show each state clearly through the map clutter? How do you code up the rules for the transitions? How does the display show the players that the marines can dive down and be safe or stay on the bridge and keep their road bonus? How does the AI decide where to put them?
Overun is more a UI challenge than a code one, you are correct. Same with the terrain! Thanks for the pointers :)
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:28 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

Don't forget there are plenty of us here that would be more than happy to beta-test for you. This forum is a wealth of edge cases :-)
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:24 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Don't forget there are plenty of us here that would be more than happy to beta-test for you. This forum is a wealth of edge cases :-)
Not just edge cases, but the occasional corner case too! :P
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:54 AM   #68
dwalend
 
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Overun is more a UI challenge than a code one...
I'm not so sure. How different should an overrun be from multiple attackers targeting a single unit in a stack? How different from targeting a component of an ogre? You already have to solve a more complex UI problem constrained by the map display.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:26 PM   #69
Tim Kauffman
 
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Originally Posted by AurochDigital View Post
We agree you want to be able to name Ogres, be cause why would you not?? So that's going to be in there!
Awesome. I always find it is these "little things" that when done in a complimentary fashion truly are able to make the ordinary the extraordinary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurochDigital View Post
So we're building an Ogre Scenario Editor that would allow the creation of scenarios and they can be shared via Steam Workshop. What we've found and as you rightly point out, that it's best to build such things incrementally and then add functionality as the community requests it. So core will be making maps and scenarios. Then later on we can look to add more such as an AI editor and so on.
The Scenario Editor sounds like a great feature.

Absolutely, the strongest foundation first is critical.

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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
Don't forget there are plenty of us here that would be more than happy to beta-test for you. This forum is a wealth of edge cases :-)
Absolutely. If you find it is favorable to the process, and amicable, throw whatever images you can out here and allow those who dare to offer their own visual re-takes and in-put. (For example, the game screen and how the User AI can look). I have found even the perceived worthless idea or concept can be instrumental in starting that chain-reaction that leads to a final iteration.

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
Not just edge cases, but the occasional corner case too! :P
...I like to think of it as pan-dimensional musing. After a hard days work at a job that leaves much to be desired, OGRE helps me relax and become one again with the universe... ;-)
This video game is going to do so much for this IP. The Scenario Editor alone is going to send nuclear shockwaves around the gaming world. For example, it will help me one day finish: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...7652151615900/

SJGs may want to open up some sort of area for FanMade Scenarios...this is going to get a lot of people inspired about the OGREverse who want to write up their own and share them with the community.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:01 PM   #70
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Default Re: Ogre Computer Game

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Originally Posted by AurochDigital View Post
We agree you want to be able to name Ogres, be cause why would you not?? So that's going to be in there!



So we're building an Ogre Scenario Editor that would allow the creation of scenarios and they can be shared via Steam Workshop. What we've found and as you rightly point out, that it's best to build such things incrementally and then add functionality as the community requests it. So core will be making maps and scenarios. Then later on we can look to add more such as an AI editor and so on.

Thanks.
Glad to hear you're looking at Steam Workshop support!
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