04-15-2018, 02:56 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Re: Fear and Madness
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Except for a couple exceptions (13 and 16), acquiring new traits from Fright Checks happens only around 22 and above... and in my experience so far, with Fright Check penalties routinely between -3 and -7, it's very rare to get that high. The average 3d6 roll is 10 so you need a margin of failure of 12 to get to the "good stuff" on the table, which means rolling against -2 as the effective Will, so that's a -12 penalty to the Will roll for the Fright Check (something that could happen in the presence of a Great Old One, but not really for anything else... unless, again, there is some kind of "downward spiral" to stack up penalties). This is obviously all for average rolls, but there are still twice 50% chances of ending up with something less horrible, which is, I think, a final 25% chances of having a new mental disadvantage with that -12 penalty? Is that right? Of course we can consider that picking up permanent disadvantages is only for exceptionally bad rolls, or exceptionally bad situations... but as a result, after maybe 2 years of campaigning in a horror setting, there's maybe 1 or 2 times that someone acquired a new trait, and I believe one of those times it was actually because they got the 13 on the table. That doesn't mean the Fright Check system as-is isn't working, I mean apparently people seem happy (I assume they don't have the same requirements for their game)... but the problem I'm wondering about is when this is getting used a lot (as in a Horror campaign), if it turns into a "roll to figure out if you freeze" system, instead of a "roll to figure out if your character's sanity deteriorates". The first one could become this tedious thing that gets in the way of action scenes, while the second one is an actual opportunity for roleplaying. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the Stress and Derangement system (because it does have this downward spiral thing I'm looking to replicate from CoC) -- and I assume as soon as you run a horror campaign, it makes sense to look into GURPS Horror. |
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04-16-2018, 03:09 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Fear and Madness
Your math is not off at all ... But ...
First of all, I have to apologize. Most of my GURPS campaigns are Cthulhu campaigns. So, When I speak about Fright Checks, I usually speak about Fright Checks in Cthulhu stories, which means Fright Checks which are made very often! What I say is not true for more ordinary horror stories where Fright Checks are rarer ... And where penalties are also lower. In Call of Cthulhu stories, as you perfectly know it, Fright Checks are very common. More common that combats, actually. And penalties are quite high. Let's take an example to better show what I want to mean: the most famous Cthulhu adventure, The Haunting (Walter Corbitt's house). And just consider that we use the conversion rule described in Cthulhu Lives!, the article published in Roleplayer #22 - which has also been used in Cthulhu Punk (if I remember well). "To figure the exact penalty, total up the maximum Sanity loss possible. (GURPS characters don’t get Will rolls to avoid Sanity loss, so if there’s a listing such as 1d6/1 point, it means 6 possible Sanity.) Divide this number by two, and round down. This will give you the Fright Check penalty.Here is the Fright Check that characters will have to do in the Haunting.
So, imagine now a longer adventure like Masks of Nyalathothep. Sooner or later, Player Characters will inevitably get a mental disadvantage. And once they will have it, they won't anymore be able to get rid of it (while you can always recover from Call of Cthulhu sanity loss). So every character (who doesn't die before) will eventually have two, three, or more mental disadvantages ... And being enforced to roleplay all of them will really give the players the feeling that their characters are insane ... That is what I wanted to mean. But I still perfectly do agree with you: if you really want to get the true feeling of Call of Cthulu adventures, the stress and derangement rules described in Horror are much better than that mere cumulation of mental problems. Last edited by Gollum; 04-16-2018 at 09:39 AM. |
04-29-2018, 02:52 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Re: Fear and Madness
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We started mixing it up a bit by interpreting some "you're stunned for xd6 turns" results with more varied things (as recommended in GURPS Horror) but you still end up with the same problem -- it's just a little less boring. I'm probably going to play with a few other suggestions from GURPS Horror... but I'm wondering where the difference in experience comes from? Maybe you're better at setting up "mood" scenes before the fight scenes, which then gives more Fright Checks to roll? |
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04-29-2018, 03:26 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Re: Fear and Madness
Pyramid #103 - Setbacks has the stability points system, which has short-term and long-term gameplay effects.
Once you lose enough stability points, you start getting afflictions or even new disadvantages. |
04-29-2018, 11:41 PM | #15 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Fear and Madness
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"What counts as “ordinary” depends on the characters and the setting. This is one place where a character story can be helpful! An ordinary, 21st-century American might have to make Fright Checks for encounters with monsters, dead bodies, and the supernatural."I also use a lot of negative modifiers, as described page 360, especially: "Apply -1 if the area is physically isolated, -1 at night or in the dark (or in daylight, if you’re a night-dweller!), and -2 if you are (or think you are) alone." Quote:
Actually, I may have chosen GURPS rules because the lethality is very low compared to Chaosium’s rules. There is a high probability of unconsciousness between 0 and -HP. And when a character is unconscious, I consider that the monster or foe doesn’t kill him. Either he believes that the character is already dead, or he prefers fleeing discreetly (not being noticed is important for Cthulhu Mythos creatures; otherwise, they would have whole armies against them). Likewise, I am very happy that my player characters don’t become too crazy too fast. As you noted it, getting mental problems is quite rare: Fright Check results of 13, 16, or 22 and more. But, as I said it, when it happens, characters cannot anymore get rid of it. Unless having a very long course of therapy … Thus, our different experiences may mainly come from my very specific manner of running games. If you consider that seeing a dead body is not the same kind of fear than seeing a Cthulhu creature, I warmly recommend you the Stress and Derangement rules (Horror, page 141-142). I didn’t use it yet, but I am thinking more and more about doing it. |
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04-30-2018, 02:18 AM | #16 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Re: Fear and Madness
Normally, if a character's effective level is less than 3, they can't roll at all (p345.) However, it does say Skill there, not Level. Since your max Will is 13 for Fright Checks, and you *need* to be able to make that roll in order to make the math work for the rest of the Fright Check mechanics, and you could easily have penalties of -15 on a roll, based on Fright Check Modifiers (p360), I'd think some changes to the wording of p344 is in order (Base Level vs Effective Level. Or does that not apply to attribute rolls, and I simply can't find that rule?
Anyway, as to the OP's situation, have you considered creating a custom Fright Check Table which better reflects your desires? As for the math & potential modifiers on p360, I count -27, -6 of which are unlikely in PCs (-2, Combat Paralysis & -4 Cowardice), assuming a botch on the will roll of 18, that's a potential fail by 32. Then you add 3d6 to that. I think that's the worst case scenario, if I've got it right. So perhaps it's the conversions you're using that are the problem with you not hitting high enough on the Fright Check Table? Note that Lovecraftian horrors are oozing with malice and dreadfulness beyond incomprehensibility to human beings - they are far beyond "normal" monsters - so, if you're giving them less than a -6 for the "monster" penalty, I think you're doing it wrong right there. I might even go so far as to say they should all be -10. Last edited by namada; 04-30-2018 at 05:39 PM. Reason: Missed some required capitalizations & added clarifying remarks. |
04-30-2018, 11:08 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Fear and Madness
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Tags |
fear, horror, sanity |
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