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Old 08-02-2017, 01:38 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward?

Greetings, all!

Does anybody of you have a unifying name for the sorts of builds that achieve the goal in a way that is opposite of straightforward.
Examples:
  1. Getting good overland travel speed by largely ignoring Basic Move, but getting HT14 + Very Fit and sprinting all the way.
  2. When building a space cowboy of sorts, foregoing DX and Freefall, and instead getting a Very Fine gun and a very limited version of Gunslinger that covers the relevant gun type.
  3. Building a social character? Get a LAI (which has Low Empathy and Enhanced Time Sense), and use its boosts to Body Language to sidestep empathic penalties, and have an interaction strategy centred around Reaction Rolls (with stacked modifiers) instead of the fussy Influence Skills.
  4. Building a cinematically omnidisciplinary mechanic/engineer? Forego high IQ, forego Talent, forego Wildcards; get one Engineering skill through the sky, and one point in some of its defaults (due to the double-default rule).
  5. The Vaygr ship type rock-paper-scissors from Homeworld 2: normally, small bombers are used against capital ships, but otherwise a frigate beats a fighter, a destroyer beats a frigate etc., but Vaygr have their RPS cycle reversed for at least some ship type (anti-frigate lancers, anti-capital destroyers etc.).
  6. Necrons in the WH40K:Soulstorm computer strategy game. All of their buildings don't have a requisition cost, instead only costing energy to build . . . but the more power plants you build, the slower the the construction process becomes.
So far I've been internally classifying them as 'bullpup designs', by closest and perhaps most famous real-world analogy. But is there a more precise term, especially one specific to gaming?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:48 AM   #2
sir_pudding
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

"Cheese" is probably what you want.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
"Cheese" is probably what you want.
Heh, that's one way of looking at it, I suppose. But that seems to be a word with a strong focus on borderline-cheating/munchkin aspects of the outcome, while I'm more interested in the non-obvious/non-traditional path towards towards the outcome. Assuming I understand the connotations correctly.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

I've never heard a common term for them. "Bullpup designs" is as good a name as any.
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Heh, that's one way of looking at it, I suppose. But that seems to be a word with a strong focus on borderline-cheating/munchkin aspects of the outcome, while I'm more interested in the non-obvious/non-traditional path towards towards the outcome. Assuming I understand the connotations correctly.
The things you are describing all seem to be exploiting flaws that get results that aren't very realistic and don't look at all like they should do what they are supposed to do. So "cheese" seems appropriate to me; "exploit" also applies.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

How does "Side Effect Exploit" work? All of the examples given use the side effects of an ability to replace main effects of what you would expect to be used.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The things you are describing all seem to be exploiting flaws that get results that aren't very realistic and don't look at all like they should do what they are supposed to do. So "cheese" seems appropriate to me; "exploit" also applies.
Although it isn't really a flaw or an exploit that you can build a stratospheric engineer who isn't good at any IQ application than engineering just by buying one engineering skill really high and using defaults and one point skills. That was the original approach to such things before Talents and if there weren't some "Talents" that weren't linked by skill default cascades, the whole idea of Talents would have been superfluous.
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Although it isn't really a flaw or an exploit that you can build a stratospheric engineer who isn't good at any IQ application than engineering just by buying one engineering skill really high and using defaults and one point skills. That was the original approach to such things before Talents and if there weren't some "Talents" that weren't linked by skill default cascades, the whole idea of Talents would have been superfluous.
No, but that example strikes me as not really belonging in the list. "Be a good engineer by being good at Engineering" is the most straightforward approach possible; it's the opposite of sideways.

Number 5 also doesn't belong, that's just force asymmetry.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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No, but that example strikes me as not really belonging in the list. "Be a good engineer by being good at Engineering" is the most straightforward approach possible; it's the opposite of sideways.
I guess I'm just used to thinking that the straightforward approach to 'omnidisciplinary' is 'more, more IQ!' followed by 'a Talent!'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Number 5 also doesn't belong, that's just force asymmetry.
To me at looks as a subset of force asymmetry that looks 'backwards' compared to the usual variants. But perhaps I'm wrong.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: A name for builds that achieve goals in a way that is opposite of straightforward

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I guess I'm just used to thinking that the straightforward approach to 'omnidisciplinary' is 'more, more IQ!' followed by 'a Talent!'.
Your really good Engineer isn't very omnidisciplinary outside of engineering which GURPS treats as basically one broad discipline. They aren't going to be Buckaroo Bonzai.
Quote:
To me at looks as a subset of force asymmetry that looks 'backwards' compared to the usual variants. But perhaps I'm wrong.
Very simply Aircraft>Submarines>Surface Ships>Aircraft but if you have a lot of submarines I could counter with more attack subs, which would be symmetrical. Or I could counter with more ASW aircraft which is the obvious asymmetry, but I could counter with destroyers instead, which is still asymmetry. It isn't really a sideways strategy, because destroyers are built for the ASW role. Sideways would be if for some reason your submarines could shoot down airplanes without any AA weapons, but with flying magic torpedoes or something (because of a glitch in the Matrix or whatever).
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