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Old 07-26-2017, 05:01 PM   #1
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Default Rocket Boosters

This is a spinoff thread prompted by the rocket boosters comments in the Combat Garage thread and what/how they can be configured.

After rescanning the UACFH entry, this is my take.

You can buy rocket boosters in 10 lb. increments, costing $50 per 10 lbs.

You can buy multiple rocket boosters, with each separate one taking one space and having 1 DP per 100 lbs. of booster.

You can also configure individual rocket boosters to:
A. Be configured as smaller rockets so that you could fire it in multiple bursts
B. Be configured to fire for multiple turns.

So, what does this all mean?

You've really got two options if you want to have multiple acceleration boosts from rocket boosters. You can either stuff them all into a single booster (minimizing the space cost) or break them into separate boosters (more spaces, but possibly more overall DP, plus redundancy - one shot won't get all the boosters).

For example... a 6000 lb. luxury requires 60 lbs. of rockets to accelerate 10 mph. If you wanted to have 3 separate 10 mph boosts you have three configuration options:
1. One rocket booster configured as 3 smaller boosters ($900, 180lbs., 2 spaces, 2 DP).
2. Three separate boosters ($300, 60 lbs., 1 space, 1 DP each, for a total of $900, 180 lbs., and 3 spaces)
3. Two boosters, one with a single 10 mph boost and the other with two 10 mph boosts (one for $300, 60 lbs., 1 space, 1 DP and one for $600, 120 lbs., 2 spaces, and 2 DP, for a total of $900, 180 lbs., and 3 spaces)

Multiple turn boosters are pretty straightforward, essentially just double (or triple, quadruple, etc.) the lbs. of booster for a particular speed burst and it continues accelerating on the same phase on the following turn (or turns)with no additional firing action required.

One item that isn't clear is in regards to item A - if you want to link the booster to other items, do you need a separate link for each "smaller rocket" or do they just fire in order off the main rocket booster. Personally I think that it is clearest if you treat each smaller rocket as if it was a separate one for everything except DP and spaces. Things get kind of muddy otherwise.

That's how I read and interpret things. Any other takes or interpretations?
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Last edited by Magesmiley; 07-26-2017 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Fixing math and example
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:39 PM   #2
Parody
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

I don't see how you get to option A/examples 1 and 3. If you want multiple boosters you can choose to fire on separate turns they have to be separate (and take up the appropriate number of spaces each); if you want one firing action for acceleration that goes over multiple turns you buy it together. You can't have a single booster that you can fire more than once. ("Once triggered, the rocket cannot be shut off till the fuel is exhausted." UACFH p. 83.)

Since you can't fire a multiple-turn rocket more than once, you don't have to worry about how the links work. :)

Don't forget to account for the weight of the booster when buying a booster! It's not free. (It's one of the weirder sets of formulas in the CWVD.)
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:21 PM   #3
ammulder
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parody View Post
I don't see how you get to option A/examples 1 and 3. If you want multiple boosters you can choose to fire on separate turns they have to be separate (and take up the appropriate number of spaces each)
Quoting UACFH:

"The rocket could be divided up into a number of separate rockets which could be fired separately so that all the acceleration does not have to occur at once"

It doesn't specifically say whether you're supposed to recalculate stats for individual sub-rockets if "the rocket [is] divided up", but the example gave a detailed calculation for "the rocket" and doesn't provide different statistics for a divided-up rocket after saying that you can do the dividing. That suggests to me that maybe the stats don't differ when divided up?
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:03 AM   #4
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

My take is that each separate rocket booster PACKAGE can only be triggered once.

Now you could have a multi-turn booster that has different acceleration for each phase (60lb for acc 10 in phase 1 and 120lb in phase 2 for acc 20 -for your example).

If you were happy for that to be as a pre-configured sequence then this would be a single package of two boosters (180lb, 2 space) with a single firing action starting the sequence. I don't see why you couldn't have a predetermined delay between the two boosts, but whatever the sequence, it is fixed at design time.

If you wanted flexibility to fire those two boosters independently then it would need to be two packages (60lb, 1 space + 120lb, 2 space). If you wanted to fire them in a sequence you would need a weapon timer. Under my interpretation of allowing a delay, you could have a $50 link between them that fired both rockets with a pre-defined delay.

Last edited by swordtart; 07-27-2017 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:26 AM   #5
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Hmmm.
Re-reading the description I am not sure now you need to make a distinction.

The only reference to spaces is that 100lb (or fraction) of rocket boosters takes 1 space. Now that could be 100lb as one rocket or 2 x 50lb rockets. Whether you fire those two 50lb rockets individually or together doesn't make any difference to the space they take up.

The only reason you would be force to break up 100lb into 2 spaces would be if the 2 x 50lb rockets had different facings (or had to be in EWPs).

We may be over-thinking this.

Last edited by swordtart; 07-27-2017 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:32 AM   #6
Parody
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammulder View Post
"The rocket could be divided up into a number of separate rockets which could be fired separately so that all the acceleration does not have to occur at once"
Yes, separate rockets (boosters). Separate items on the vehicle layout, separate DPs, and a separate calculation of spaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammulder View Post
That suggests to me that maybe the stats don't differ when divided up?
The example, sadly, chose numbers that match evenly with the size of a booster so a multiple turn burn booster and separate, independently fireable boosters are the same.

I'm saying that if you had a vehicle that needed 40 lbs. of booster for 10 extra acceleration, and you wanted to do it for two turns, your choices are one booster that fires two turns in a row and takes up 80 lbs., 1 DP, 1 space or two boosters that each use 40 lbs., 1 DP, 1 space (so two DP and spaces total) and can be fired separately.

For swordtart's example, I personally wouldn't let you set a multi turn booster to fire different amounts of its fuel per turn over its burn time.

I'm glad boosters are rare around here. :)
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Last edited by Parody; 07-27-2017 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #7
Magesmiley
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

I'm quite glad that I brought this up. Multiple opinions is quite helpful for trying to interpret some of the cloudier parts of the rules. And I'm already rethinking my earlier opinion.

Ammulder's quote from the rules is probably the biggest thing that makes the situation murky. Parody's interpretation of what the intent of that phrase was would make a lot of sense - it is immediately following the example, so it might be referring to that booster specifically. This interpretation would also be the cleanest/simplest implementation for car design too, which is why I think it is probably the best one.

I'd concur with Swordtart about the multi-turn configuration (the description allows the weight to be configured for a booster on a per turn basis).

I guess, to me at least, that suggests that each booster is figured separately for space and DP purposes. Although multi-turn boosters are built as a single item for space and DP purposes.

So, of my examples at the top, the second one (three separate boosters) is the way they'd actually have to be configured according to the rules.

Just my take.

How I'd advise it being implemented in the garage: each booster gets built as a separate component assigned to F/B/T/U side (not sure about the big rigs and jump jets... eewww), with the designer being allowed to configure how many turns it burns for (defaulting to 1) and how much of a boost to apply to each turn (with a checkbox to apply the same each turn, similar to how the wheelguards are implemented).
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:42 AM   #8
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Parody:
For clarity can you say where it specifies that rocket boosters need to be individual items and the space requirement paid for each set (rather than totaling the poundage and allocating space for that)?

I note that the rules exclusively use the pluralised form (i.e. rocket boosters rather than a rocket booster). That indicates that they don't come individually rather that they are collectively a set of boosters. If you have two packages it is still a single set of boosters.

In my example you presume that a booster is firing different amounts of fuel in different turns. Let us presume that this 180lb booster package was actually composed of three 60lb sub-boosters. You could link them in such a way that you could fire one, two or three (for acceleration of 10, 20 or a risky 30). You could fire 1 in one phase and 2 in the next turn. I have not changed the amount of fuel in each booster, I am simply firing more boosters.

Now lets say you bundle two of the sub-boosters into a single 120lb package. If I can never fire them separately there is no practical difference in having two linked boosters or one booster that is twice as large.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:22 PM   #9
Parody
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
For clarity can you say where it specifies that rocket boosters need to be individual items and the space requirement paid for each set (rather than totaling the poundage and allocating space for that)?
I'm going from the text that a single booster continues to fire each turn until burnt out. If you want separately controllable boosters, you have to buy separate items (like pretty much everything in Car Wars). Each item's stats are determined by their weight, and you must round up to a full space because it says "or fraction thereof".

Otherwise, well, I don't own all the ADQs digitally to see if there was a clarification somewhere and I don't want to go unearth my physical ones. Sorry.

I can tell you that the Pyramid articles and the CWRQ/ODQ don't say much about them. The closest is where the ODQ says you can buy boosters in single pound increments but you round up to the nearest 10 for pricing. (No, there's no source referenced.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Now lets say you bundle two of the sub-boosters into a single 120lb package. If I can never fire them separately there is no practical difference in having two linked boosters or one booster that is twice as large.
The difference is that the larger one (configured for two turns) fires on the second turn without you taking a firing action, while the two smaller ones can be fired on completely different turns or fired together on one turn for multiple firing actions (or link setups). You could instead choose to make the bigger one do more acceleration once, but you have to make that choice at design time. You're paying for flexibility.

Also, depending on the math, one may be less spaces, another design consideration.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:28 PM   #10
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Rocket Boosters

Except:
The rocket could be divided up into a number of separate rockets which could be fired separately so that all the acceleration does not have to occur at once

This to me says that the whole package is considered as a single rocket regardless of how you choose to divide it at design time to provide firing options.

I do not contest that if you want to have flexibility at run time you need to build that in at design time (with additional cost in linkages or the requirement for multiple firing actions). I simply contest the assertion that you treat each combination as a separate instance of the rocket booster and have to calculate the space accordingly.

Other components don't take up more space because you decide to link them differently.

As for ADQ&A I don't have a complete collection the only reference I could find was in 8_1 where we have this.

Q Please clarify rocket boosters! (For example -- how long does a rocket booster last, etc.)

A Each booster burns for 1 second and accelerates 1,000 Lbs. of vehicle 10 mph.

A pretty generic question but the answer is that rocket boosters are made up of multiple 10lb sub-rockets. So our 180lb package is 18 rockets. Again nothing here that tells me that each firing combination takes up a whole number of spaces (only that it takes up 1 space per 100lb of rockets overall - in the case of 180lb of rockets, 2 spaces total).

Last edited by swordtart; 07-27-2017 at 03:09 PM.
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