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Old 02-09-2016, 09:45 AM   #31
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

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Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Used a different browser on different computer at Library and got it to work with some trial & error . :-)

One thing I did notice is seems impossible to Component Armour two identical weapons together AND have a Blow Through Concealment on just one of them ?? :-/

Apart from that I'm much happier now .
There's a bug I reported that should address this already.
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Old 02-09-2016, 08:11 PM   #32
ammulder
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

Sadly, I need to report that the time I thought I had is evaporating into other projects for at least the next month or two. But I'm keeping all the reports/requests for that magical day when time comes my way again. :)

As to the specific issue, I can't say that I've ever heard of somebody attempting to CA two "identical" weapons where one of them is concealed and the other not... At least we know your creative juices are flowing... :)
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:38 AM   #33
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

Due to my 'unique' way of thinking , I tend to find minor flaws whenever I design stuff ;-)

My idea was a Q upgrade of my Applause '65 car : the original has a Front mounted RL & I added a second 'hidden' RL linked to first . Concealing the 1st as well could make attackers suspicious .

Also I noticed that Paint Pellet Ammo & Single Shot Paint Rockets aren't available yet . We've found them very useful for training ongoing characters , Arenas/Races where target shooting earn points , Counting-Coup , annoying the authorities , non-lethal fun , etc etc . Okay it's not used that much , but option to have it is very handy .

[Edit] Minor niggle I have is that Powerplants can't be moved to rear of Vehicles . It becomes important in types like Dragsters due to Turret mounting limitations . Also we've always envisioned my 'Smasher' design to have it's Medium PP behind the Driver , as added protection due to designs lighter rear Armour ?
Just a thought .
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:55 PM   #34
ammulder
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

Arranging cargo/PP/crew as you like front to back is definitely on the list.

I'll note the paint stuff as well.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:42 AM   #35
Racer
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update - Problems ...

Well I've just about got the hang of CG - depending on phone signal & trying to save designs the disappear into the ether ...
We've noticed a number more problems :

1. Extra Power Cells : on smaller PPs ( 1 Space ) at least , they seem to take up only 1/10 of a Space ! Following the rules as written , each sets Spaces should be rounded up to 1 Space . I'd be quite happy if this was rounded up to next Space on Cycles , but as CG plans it , it's open to extreme abuse ! I managed to get 33 EPCs on a Heavy Cycle & have got up to 38 EPCs on a Light Trike before running out of weight allowance !!! 8-|
I no longer have ADQ 6/3 or Uncle Albert's '89 ( both stolen ) to check original wordings , but I'm sure this wasn't the intent for this item ?

2. If using UACFH rules set in CG , the Large Mini Safe has only 2 internal spaces - in Printed version on UACFH ( at least - I've not got access to PDF version ) this was increased to 3 internal Spaces after feedback via ADQ . It was still listed as 2 spaces in last printed CWC , so it's a minor oversight I think ? Price in UACFH has also dropped to $600 - it's still $700 in CG .

3. I may start a thread on this , as there is huge ambiguity in wording of the written rules , but Reversed Trikes Bodies/Frames +50% cost also increases cost of Chassis type AND Suspension costs as well , in your calculations . Different places ( Combat Showcase , VG 2 , VG 3 etc ) & at different times all give different interpretations when you back engineer them . Increasing these costs too is unfair on Rev Trike users - for example :

A Sub with X-Hvy Chassis & Hvy Suspension costs $1,050 for basic body & gets a HC of 4 .
A Reverse Light Trike with X-Hvy Chassis & Hvy Suspension costs $1,500 under those rules , and only gets a HC of 3 !
Okay the Trike is lighter with better powerplant options , but add in a CA Frame & the costs go through the roof - and that's rather silly ...
An X-Hvy Reverse Trike under these rules , with Hvy Suspension & X-Hvy Chassis costs $3,300 - a Pick-up with the mods same costs $3,150 .
The wording in UACFH states that the BODY costs +50% more - as opposed to CWC2 wording of the CHASSIS costs +50% more ! We've interpretated this so that only the body costs 50% more - the Light Trike in my above example would then cost $1,125 , which is much more reasonable .

Still it is a good tool & keep up the tweaking & improving :-)
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:09 AM   #36
Magesmiley
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update - Problems ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Well I've just about got the hang of CG - depending on phone signal & trying to save designs the disappear into the ether ...
We've noticed a number more problems :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
1. Extra Power Cells : on smaller PPs ( 1 Space ) at least , they seem to take up only 1/10 of a Space ! Following the rules as written , each sets Spaces should be rounded up to 1 Space . I'd be quite happy if this was rounded up to next Space on Cycles , but as CG plans it , it's open to extreme abuse ! I managed to get 33 EPCs on a Heavy Cycle & have got up to 38 EPCs on a Light Trike before running out of weight allowance !!! 8-|
I no longer have ADQ 6/3 or Uncle Albert's '89 ( both stolen ) to check original wordings , but I'm sure this wasn't the intent for this item ?
I checked against UACFH, and you do seem to be correct on this - they should get rounded up for spaces and DP for each instance that you purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
2. If using UACFH rules set in CG , the Large Mini Safe has only 2 internal spaces - in Printed version on UACFH ( at least - I've not got access to PDF version ) this was increased to 3 internal Spaces after feedback via ADQ . It was still listed as 2 spaces in last printed CWC , so it's a minor oversight I think ? Price in UACFH has also dropped to $600 - it's still $700 in CG .
Yeah, looks like another item to update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
3. I may start a thread on this , as there is huge ambiguity in wording of the written rules , but Reversed Trikes Bodies/Frames +50% cost also increases cost of Chassis type AND Suspension costs as well , in your calculations . Different places ( Combat Showcase , VG 2 , VG 3 etc ) & at different times all give different interpretations when you back engineer them . Increasing these costs too is unfair on Rev Trike users - for example :

A Sub with X-Hvy Chassis & Hvy Suspension costs $1,050 for basic body & gets a HC of 4 .
A Reverse Light Trike with X-Hvy Chassis & Hvy Suspension costs $1,500 under those rules , and only gets a HC of 3 !
Okay the Trike is lighter with better powerplant options , but add in a CA Frame & the costs go through the roof - and that's rather silly ...
An X-Hvy Reverse Trike under these rules , with Hvy Suspension & X-Hvy Chassis costs $3,300 - a Pick-up with the mods same costs $3,150 .
The wording in UACFH states that the BODY costs +50% more - as opposed to CWC2 wording of the CHASSIS costs +50% more ! We've interpretated this so that only the body costs 50% more - the Light Trike in my above example would then cost $1,125 , which is much more reasonable .

Still it is a good tool & keep up the tweaking & improving :-)
Changes to the cost of the body do affect the accessories and selections that are based off it. Using the old designs to reverse engineer this can be problematic, as there are often accounting errors in the older designs, as well as some editing discrepancies too.

As far as cars vs. trikes. Not every situation is ideal for every combination of options. Try looking at the cost in your examples if you're planning an off-road vehicle. I think that you'll find that they do quite a bit better there. And that is the place where trikes (including reverse ones) really shine, cost-wise.

Personally, I wouldn't run a reversed light trike against a subcompact in a regular (on-road) battle because those options provide a poor return on cost for that. However I would (and have) run a (non-reversed) light trike against a subcompact in low budget duels - there are some advantages to doing so, particularly in spaces.

Again, remember that many choices are best used in niches and that while you can utilize them in others, they may not be the most effective choice.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:07 PM   #37
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update - Problems ...

[QUOTE=Magesmiley;1979490]I checked against UACFH, and you do seem to be correct on this - they should get rounded up for spaces and DP for each instance that you purchase.[QUOTE]

Hmm not sure I read that you have to update for each instance you purchase, there is nothing saying you can't do the rounding all of them at once. If you bought 10, they should fit in 100% of the space for the plant (or 1 more space for a 1 space plant). You would still have to find 4 times the weight and cost of the plant (which seems balance enough). Given the limited in game advantage of having extra power cells this seems bad enough.

The rounding for spaces was to simplify book keeping back when we had only fingers to count on, but we don't really need that anymore. It also introduces issues when you have multiple values for the smallest space anything can take up (1/3 for mini rockets, 1/2 for cycles, or 1 for most of the "round up" category of weapons, streamlining, sloped armour etc.. )

I really don't see a problem in keeping track of decimal spaces anymore, we don't do it for costs or weights.
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:45 PM   #38
Racer
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

It's not the decimals that are the problem , it's the abuse potential . Example : A 40' Van Trailer has a few X-Ray Lasers & 2 Laser Batteries - the Laser Batts have 200 power units between them .
Swap the Batteries for a Medium Cycle PP with 10 Extra Power Cells - 2 Spaces , 525lbs & $3,500 according to CG - and you get 450 Power Units to use ! I think that's just slightly off ?

I've now managed to design an Armed & lightly Armoured Heavy Trike with 40 Extra Power Cells !!! This thing can travel 2,100 miles at Top Speed without recharging under current CG rules ... 8-/

Another thing I've noticed : EWP Armour doesn't appear on Car Summary for some reason . AND under the UACFH rules setting , weapons in EWPs CAN use Component Armour . This is another small change & probably just overlooked .
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:07 AM   #39
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

Consider a counter case.

If I buy 4 sets of extra cells using your argument
For a 1 space plant they will:

Cost the same as fitting a second identical plant.
Weight the same as fitting a second identical plant.
Take up 4 times the space as fitting a second identical plant.
Have only 2 more DPs than a second plant (assuming you use the same rounding up rule for every set of cells you buy - otherwise it only gives 1 extra DP).
Of course you will get twice the PUs of a second plant, but is this worth the space pain?

I suggest you are over-thinking the Laser Battery comparison. Before it was introduced people just used the small cycle plant (just as they used an extra plant before extra cells were introduced).

It had a slight advantage on introduction and is still better than a plant if you need about 100 PUs (which equates to quite a large magazine comapred to a conventional weapon). It is a niche product for a niche area. It was designed to allow pedestian lasers to fire and to prevent abuse from gas plant users. It didn't have to be particularly efficient for those purposes.

Once you want to power many lasers it should make sense that a proper plant is appropriate. When you use your laptop for an extended period you plug it in, if you want more than a few hours of light, you buy a generator, not dozens of extra batteries.

To get the same performance as a laser battery using a plant and extra cells would cost and weigh 50% more than a small cycle plant, take up twice the space and give you the same PUs (but would cost 3 times as much to recharge which is the real disadvantage). Beyond that point extra cells become more efficient but why should it not be?
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:06 PM   #40
Racer
 
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Default Re: Combat Garage Update

Okay I'll leave the EPC questions/problems for the time being - apart from noting I got a very strange result when I added one EPC to a Super PP in a Pickup ...

Other things I've noticed .

1 : As it is now , you cannot have asymmetrical placings of Hubs and Guards . Many Arena 'wall hugger' designs have heavy hubs+guards on Arena facing side & light ones/fakes on wall facing side . Not such a problem for Road vehicles , but it's a useful option none the less . [Edit] This was pointed out on page 1 of this thread - sorry I missed that post .

2 : Using the UACFH setting , Dual Weapon Magazines don't seem available ? I might have missed something ?

3 : Also under UACFH or ADQ errata , Vehicular Shotgun's can use Anti Personnel Ammo . I noticed this when trying to recreate my favourite 'Ped Killer' Trike design .

4 : I'll have to double check this when I have better phone signal , but it seems very hard or impossible to place Component Armour around both a Driver and Passenger together ? Combat Garage unfortunately then crashed & couldn't check my design once saved . I'll try again later .

5 : Again I'll have to double check , but I don't think it's possible to put Component Armour a whole Cargo Area or Passenger Compartment . This is an extremely handy option for small or budget transport vehicles - and for VIPs in executive ones as well .

I'll post again I can confirm on these .
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