Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2019, 01:57 PM   #41
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
I've toyed with the idea, but... then it gets too broad. They were good at everything. What would you put in it? What is the essence of Elven competence?
We don't see any "young" Elves in any of the works I've read. Most of them are centuries old, which means that high IQ could be experience rather than racial. I wouldn't bother with including what PCs can just buy.

As for the other traits, some could be learned while others would be inborn. If "light walk" is something that all Elves do from birth it should be part of the template. If it's a skill they learn later, then it could be included (presuming some minimum training) or left out of the template to be bought when learned.

Quote:
Taboo Traits: Gizmo, Luck, Super Luck, Serendipity, Blessed (Heroic Feats) [-5]
Elf heroes could very easily have these. The type of destiny they have doesn't seem to preclude things going their way or being so good that they just don't fail as often as critical failures would indicate.
naloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 02:01 PM   #42
khorboth
 
khorboth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
I'm rereading LotR just now. I'm in the first half of Return of the King and Gandalf has just told Pippin that the Stewart of Gondor and his younger son can "perceive if he bends his will thither, much of what is passing in the minds of men, even those that dwell far off. It is difficult to deceive him, and dangerous to try." This sounds like telepathy or the kind of telempathic abilities Counsellor Troi had.
Yes. Or something. I think this is another example of some weird power being present due to Numenorian blood. With that prerequisite, some subtle weird powers are fine. Not racial, but bought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Legolas seemed to suggest that fifteen miles was a very minor issue for Elvish sight. That is a great deal more than Telescopic Vision (x2). Also, the curvature of the Earth doesn't block Elvish sight.
I stopped at 2 because that's enough to get the feel and not enough to blow up the point total, not because it reflects what Legolas' Elf Eyes saw. I could easily justify +5, but then we move toward the 300 point elf template. On the other hand, Legolas was exceptional and well known to Aragorn. maybe he had better than average vision even for an elf.
khorboth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 02:03 PM   #43
khorboth
 
khorboth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
I really think that's fundamentally incompatible with LOTR canon.
Perhaps my quest for playable, low-cost templates which still capture the feel of the races is doomed to failure. But... would Sam give up? NO! Neither will I!
khorboth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 02:12 PM   #44
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Legolas seemed to suggest that fifteen miles was a very minor issue for Elvish sight. That is a great deal more than Telescopic Vision (x2). Also, the curvature of the Earth doesn't block Elvish sight.
Legolas was Sindar nobility. He's the son of Thranduil, King of the Elves of North Mirkwood. Most of the elves who Tolkein portrays in any detail are nobility, and they seem to be significantly more capable than the average elf.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 02:43 PM   #45
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Most of the elves who Tolkein portrays in any detail are nobility, and they seem to be significantly more capable than the average elf.
We don't know that, precisely because Tolkien gives us so little about common elves. The raft-elves are about the closest we ever get to them. For all we know, they're as capable as all but the highest of elves.

They probably aren't, but you have go beyond the text to decide how they're lesser.
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 05:14 PM   #46
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Perhaps my quest for playable, low-cost templates which still capture the feel of the races is doomed to failure. But... would Sam give up? NO! Neither will I!
Ah! Capture the feel. Okay, that's more doable.
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 06:35 PM   #47
Astromancer
 
Astromancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Carolina
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Men [Varies]


Wose Eyes [-1] (special case of distinctive feature)
A note on the Wose. A Woodwose was in Anglo-Saxon and Medieval times a sort of Wildman that lived in the woods. These creatures are often Armorial bearers and look like Medieval versions of Bigfoot. In Spenser's The Faerie Queen woodwoses are called satyrs. Satyrane is a half satyr. Tolkien wrote articles on Spenser, I never got the chance to read these but one subject they're supposed to cover is the Anglo-Saxon Woodwose roots of Satyrane. So Woses might need a template. Their Middle Earth name, by the way, is Druedain.
__________________
Per Ardua Per Astra!


Ancora Imparo

Last edited by Astromancer; 02-05-2019 at 07:55 PM.
Astromancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 07:19 PM   #48
jason taylor
On Notice
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Woses are the primitive men in the wild parts of Eastern Rohan and/or Northern Gondor. It's a little vague. They showed up briefly in LOTR when Theoden bargained for passage and agreed to make his people stop hunting them.

They have black-in-black eyes. According to the ICE supplements, the iris glows faintly red when they are angry.
Uh-huh. They have a few special traits attributed to them as you can read in Unfinished Tales. Basically they are out of the way folk kind of like Lapps.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 11:51 PM   #49
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Dwarves should have Resistance or Immunity to Domination - that's not mind control in general, since emotional effects and suggestions could work on them, but they straight up can't be totally subdued by the will of someone else.

Hobbits should have something like this too. All hobbits who possess a Ring of Power show an ability to resist its effects that men never did. Gollum had the Ring for 500 years without fading into a wraith. Bilbo gave it up of his own free will after having it for 70 years (and being assisted by Gandalf). Sam refused its temptation when he got it, with his hobbit sense. Frodo eventually gave in, but he was exhausted, starved, parched, and standing on the brink of Mount Doom; he gets a pass. Meanwhile, Pippin manages to survive his Palantir encounter with Sauron without giving the game away, though Sauron was in haste and jumping to conclusions. Fatty Bolger is supposed to be frozen in fear when the Ringwraiths attack Crickhollow, but he manages to throw off the Black Breath long enough to run for help. And four hobbits and a ranger manage to spiritually fend off the nine Ringwraiths for weeks.

Yes, hobbits have very strong mental defenses.
But what Hobbits have is rather different from what the Naugrim (Dwarves) possess.

According to JRRT, a Ring of Power has very little power over a Dwarf. It can inflame the already-present tendency toward obsessive behavior and greed, but it doesn't make them invisible and it won't make a Dwarf live any longer or shorter (at least not directly, it might get him murdered, like Thror and Thrain).

So a Dwarf with the One Ring would not become a wraith, nor would he become like Gollum. He would (barring violence or accident), die at his natural time.

Hobbits, though, _are_ affected by the Great Rings just as other Men are, the difference is one of degree. Hobbits tend to be resistant of domination, but they aren't immune to it like Dwarves. Sméagol hardly ever wore the Ring after he went underground, which is part of why he ended up as what he was rather than a wraith. Hobbits most certainly do stop aging if they hold a Great Ring, as we saw with Sméagol, Bilbo, and Frodo, and obviously a Ring can make a Hobbit invisible.
__________________
HMS Overflow-For conversations off topic here.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 12:05 AM   #50
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Seems reasonable. I'll tack it on there.


That's what I was aiming for too. And... We're above that level. Any thoughts on what to trim? or disadvantages for Elves? Tolkien was not big on giving them any weaknesses. I don't think "tied to fate" is a fair thing to give a PC.
That's kind of inherent, though. If you're playing in JRRT's world, certain things are just part of it, and Elves are tied to Fate. For that matter, so are Dwarves, Ents, Eagles, Ainur, etc. Only Men (including Hobbits) are not.

It's sometimes hard to pin down exactly what that means, it's not precisely the same as free will, which the other races do have. It's more a matter that Men can't be locked into a single outcome ahead of time (except by God) in the way the other races can be and sometimes are. But that can be hard to express in a gaming situation.

As for Elvish point totals...yeah, it's inherent to the world.

Elves are immortal, and the Creator granted them great gifts of mind and body, that's canonical. They are inherently high point characters, with immortality, immunity to disease, high fatigue and HT and ST and so forth. That's all Elves.

The Sindar and even more so the Noldor are far worse. The Sindar lived in Doriath and were ruled by and taught by Queen Melian, an angel. The Noldor lived in Valinor and were instructed by and nurtured by archangels. They have knowledge and power and gifts that are simply out of the scale of the other races, that's canonically acknowledged.

I'm not sure there's any 'balanced' way around that while staying true to the setting. Most of the 'downsides' of being an Elf, though some of them are significant, don't translate into negative points very well, because they tend to play out over centuries.

It's so much a part of the setting, in fact, that it's a key element to the backstory of The Lord of the Rings. The Noldor of Eregion longed for the timeless peace of Valinor, but in Valinor they are immediately subject to the angels and archangels and higher ranking Elves like the Vanyar. In Middle-earth, they are the top dogs, the highest and most gifted and able people, and they liked it. That was the personality conflict that made them vulnerable to Sauron's temptations, and led to the creation of the Great Rings.
__________________
HMS Overflow-For conversations off topic here.
Johnny1A.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tolkien

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.