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Old 01-12-2019, 08:55 AM   #41
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by DreadDomain View Post
I haven't double-checked anything but I quickly realised he does not have any swinging ability with his club.
Yea, I didn't add that either. The Netflix version doesn't really do that (and with cancellation won't ever get to that point).

Quote:
Ambidexterity [5]; Catfall [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Daredevil [15];
It occurs to me that I forgot to add Daredevil [15] to Daredevil. Catfall is probably a nice touch as well. I added Fit to help recover fatigue.

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Perfect Balance [15]; Trained By A Master [30]
I toyed with Perfect Balance. Isn't TBAM [40]?

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Perks: Off-Hand Weapon Training (Smallsword) [1];
You made him ambidextrous. Why does he need offhand training?

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Style Familiarity: Boxing [1]; Style Familiarity: Escrima [1]; Swinging [1]
I intentionally skipped MA to reduce the number of supplements necessary. It's a great book with lots of crunch, but between Basic, Powers, Supers, and a few Power-Ups I already had too much source material.

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Discriminatory Hearing (Passive Biological, -5%) [15]; Discriminatory Smell (Emotion Sense, +50%; Passive Biological, -5%) [22]; Discriminatory Taste (Passive Biological, -5%) [10]; Para-Radar (Extended Arc: 360, +125%; Super, -10%) [86]; Parabolic Hearing 3 (Passive Biological, -5%) [12]; Sensitive Touch (Stethoscopic, +50%; Ultra-Fine, +30%; Passive Biological, -5%) [18]; Robust Hearing [1]; Vibration Sense (Passive Biological, -5%) [10]
Not allowing source based neutralize/static in your setting? Overall this looks pretty good... I missed vibration sense and I suspect that parabolic hearing is a bit low (this version would treat 8 ft away the same as 1 ft, which seems low for hearing whispers a room away through barriers).


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Disadvantages [-208]
Blindness [-50]; Charitable (9) [-22]; Code of Honor (Hero's) [-10]; Flashbacks (Mild) [-5]; Guilt Complex [-5]; Light Sleeper [-5]; Obsession: Eliminate Organized Crime (Long-Term Goal) (9) [-15]; On The Edge (9) [-22]; Pacifism (Cannot Harm Innocents) [-10]; Secret Identity (Imprisonment) [-20]; Selfless (9) [-7]; Sense of Duty: Residents of Hell's Kitchen (Large Group) [-10]; Social Stigma (Blind) [-5]; Susceptible to Loud Noises -5 [-20].
I'd cut a bit here. Blindness, sure. Code, mmmm, not sure. Flashbacks, not randomly under stress. Guilt, mostly from being a catholic (quirk). Light sleeper means he'll be low on fatigue. Obession seems to overlap with SoD. Would he do one without the other? Charitable seems to overlap with SoD, doesn't he primarily help out those Hell's Kitchen (not all over NY). He's not really selfless either, he has lots of other motivations from the prior -200 points in disads.

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Skills [83]
A good list, more reflective of an experienced DD. I'd still wildcard quite a few of those into one focus for simplicity.

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Relationship [-13]
Contact: Ben Urich (Daily Bugle Reporter) (Effective Skill 15; Usually Reliable; Frequency: 9 or less) [4];
Contact: Underworld (Effective Skill 12; Unreliable; Frequency: 12 or less) [1];
Dependent and Ally: Foggy Nelson (25% of total; Frequency: 9 or less) [-9];
Dependent and Ally: Karen Page (25% of total; Frequency: 9 or less) [-9];
At those levels, they would be the focus of the campaign, which doesn't work well if you have lots of PCs with similar setups. I suspect that 75% of the time he isn't babysitting either Foggy or Karen, so I'd go 6- for the dependents... or perhaps make it one roll for either at 6-. That doesn't mean they aren't around more often. It just means that 9% he had to drop everything to focus on their problems relative to the 38% with one 9-. Other times he interacts with them as NPCs/friends. If he needs them as allies the ally number can be higher than the dependent #.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #42
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

TBaM is [30], p. B93. Weapon Master is potentially the most expensive of the cinematic background advantages at [35] for "all muscle-powered weapons". Imbue 3 is [40], but Imbue is an odd duck in that it's closer to Magery or Power Investiture than TBaM/WM/Gunslinger/Heroic Archer.
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:38 PM   #43
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

V2 Justice League (movie version)

Aquaman
ST 40 BL 10 tons Thr 8d [ 330 ]
DX 14 [ 80 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 14 [ 40 ]
Speed 7 [ 0 ]

Allies (Group up to 25%, base 1, 12-, x2, 51-100, x12; Env - only underwater -20%; Summonable +100%)' [ 44 ]
Amphibious [ 10 ]
Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
DR 15 [ 75 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Destiny (Great) [ 15 ]
Empathy (Marine) [ 15 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Swimming; Top move 224 yds/sec; Instant Acceleration +50%) [ 150 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
Independent Wealth 20 [ 20 ]
IT:DR/3 [ 75 ]
Mind Control (Independent +70%; Suggestion -40%; Uncontrollable -20%) [ 55 ]
Perk: Spear -> Staff skill [ 1 ]
Perk: Trident [ 1 ]
Pressure Support 3 [ 15 ]
Regeneration (Regular) [ 25 ]
Telesend (Broadcast +50%) [ 45 ]

Brawling-16 (DX+2) [4]; Explorer!-12 (WC) [24]; Spear-16 (DX+2) [8] [ 34 ]

Total [ 1110 ]

Batman
ST 16 BL 80 Thr 2d [ 60 ]
DX 16 [ 120 ]
IQ 16 [ 120 ]
HT 14 [ 40 ]
Speed 7.25 [ 0 ]

Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
Danger Sense [ 15 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Fit [ 5 ]
Gizmos 5 [ 25 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]

Independent Income 10 [ 10 ]
Indomitable [ 15 ]
Intuition [ 15 ]
Luck (Extraordinary) [ 30 ]
Night Vision/5 [ 5 ]
Obscure 8 (Darkness/Smoke; Area 4 +150%; Persistent +40%; Ranged +40%) [ 53 ]
Perks: Climbing Line; Cloaked; Masked [ 3 ]
Peripheral Vision [ 15 ]
Rapier Wit [ 5 ]
Status 3 (Free) [ 0 ]
Unfazable [ 15 ]
WM (All) [ 45 ]
Wealth (Multimillionaire 4) [ 150 ]
Wild Talent [ 20 ]
Visualization (Reduced Time +140%; Blessing +100%; Cursing +100%; Selectivity +10%) [ 45 ]

Businessman!-14 (WC-2) [6]; Detective!-16 (WC) [24]; Martial Artist!-18 (WC+2) [48]; Scientist-14! (WC-2) [6]; Tactics-20 (IQ+4) [20] [ 104 ]

Total [ 955 ]

Flash
ST 12 BL 32 Thr 1d+2 [ 20 ]
DX 13 [ 60 ]
IQ 13 [ 60 ]
HT 13 [ 30 ]
Speed 8 [ 30 ]

ATR/4 (Super 10%) [ 360 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Ground; Top Move 256 yds/sed; Cosmic: Second Nature +150%; Super -10%) [ 240 ]
Enhanced Time Sense (Super -10%) [ 41 ]
IA 10d (Shock Touch; Melee, C -30%; Surge +20%; Takes Extra Time x4 -20%; Super -10%) [ 30 ]
IT:DR/2 (Super -10%) [ 45 ]
Regeneration (Instant; Super -10%)) [ 90 ]
Resistant (Hazards, +8; Super -10%)) [ 14 ]
Striking ST+8 (Super -10%) [ 15 ]
Very Fit [ 15 ]

Move!-12 (WC-1) [12]; Scrounging-13 (Per) [1] [ 13 ]

Total [ 1063 ]

Superman
ST 60 BL 1k tons Thr 13d (Kryptonian -10%) [ 450 ]
DX 12 [ 40 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 12 [ 20 ]
Speed 6 [ 0 ]

DR 25 (Skin -20%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 88 ]
ETS (Kryptonian -10%) [ 41 ]
Enhanced Move 5 (Flight; max 1280 yds/sec ; Kryptonian -10%) [ 90 ]
Flight (Space +50%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 56 ]
Flight Move +14 (Kryptionian -10%) [ 26 ]
High Pain Threshold (Kryptionian -10%) [ 9 ]
IT:DR/2 [ 50 ]
IA 2d burn (Laser Vision; AP/10 +200%; RoF 10, Selective Fire +110%; Kryptonian -10%; AA: IA) [ 8 ]
IA 4d cr (Freezing Breath; Cone 5 yd base +100%; Range x4 20/40 +30%; Jet 0%; Dbl KB +20%; Freezing +20%; Kryptonian -10%) [ 52 ]
Perk- Nigh Invulnerable Costume [ 1 ]
Pressure Support 2 (Kryptonian -10%) [ 9 ]
Rapport (Lois) [ 5 ]
Regeneration (Slow; Kryptonian -10%) [ 9 ]
Temperature Support 10 (Kryptonian -10%) [ 9 ]
Vacuum Support (Kryptonian -10%) [ 5 ]
Wild Talent 2 (Wild Ability +50%; Super Senses Only -20%) [ 52 ]

Brawling-12 (DX) [1]; IA-14 (DX+2) [4]; Investigator!-11 (WC-1) [12]; Writer-16 (IQ+3) [16] [ 33 ]

Total [ 1093 ]

Wonder Woman
ST 50 BL 100 tons Thr 10d+2 (+48 Fixed ST) [ 324 ]
DX 15 [ 220 ]
IQ 12 [ 40 ]
HT 13 [ 30 ]
Speed 7 [ 0 ]

Appearance (Beautiful) [ 12 ]
Combat Reflexes [ 15 ]
DB2 (Bracelets, Stolen & Unique -30%) [ 42 ]
Daredevil [ 15 ]
Empathy [ 15 ]
High Pain Threshold [ 10 ]
IT:DR/5 [ 125 ]
Mind Probe (Magic Lasso, Stolen & Unique -30%; Acc: Used Conversationally -20%; Melee: Whiplike -15%; Reliable +50%; Temp Disad: Truthfulness, 6- -10%) [ 15 ]
Perk: Magic ST for her ST [ 1 ]
Perk: Tough Shield [ 1 ]
Regeneration (Slow) [ 10 ]
Super Jumping 5 [ 50 ]
Unaging [ 5 ]
Wealth (Comfortable) [ 10 ]
WM (Amazon) [ 30 ]

History!-12 (WC) [24]; Martial Artist (Amazon)!-18 (WC+3) [60] [ 84 ]

Total [ 1054 ]

Designer's Notes
I redid a few things based on feedback. Aquaman got DR and less IT:DR. Superman got a few more resistances and IT:DR/2. Wonder Woman is now beautiful. These again are designed with the idea that you have 5 players that write up equal PCs using the JL as inspiration.

Superman will punch for an avg of 44-45 dmg, which would only translate to 8-9 on WW just under 1/5 her HP. WW does 37 punching or 41 imp with her sword, which would do either 6 or 16 respectively. The latter value being 1/4 of Supes HP per hit. Fist to fist, he'll win. Fist to sword, she will unless he falls back on his other abilities or grappling. Flight + innate attack should give him air superiority. She, of course, still has better defenses, but his 2d (10) RoF 10 laser eyes are good at slicing and dicing from a range. Aquaman could give WW a bit of trouble but he doesn't have the raw damage or superior skill to threaten Superman.

Batman would have figured out how to get them to fight and exhaust each other... The flash could zoom in, attack, and be out of range again... until they used a wait to tag him.

Batman contributes with tech (gizmos, usually tools or grenades) and Visualization. He provides "assists" for a for an avg +2 (friends) or -2 (enemies) every turn along with his other actions.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:35 PM   #44
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Yea, I didn't add that either. The Netflix version doesn't really do that (and with cancellation won't ever get to that point).
This version was not necessarily based on the Netflix version but more on my perception of what Daredevil is. It might be dated because it is still coloured by the comic books while John Romita Sr was still drawing the book mixed with what we have seen in Netflix. That's why I still see him with a Code of Honor (Hero) and even more importantly, swinging.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
It occurs to me that I forgot to add Daredevil [15] to Daredevil. Catfall is probably a nice touch as well. I added Fit to help recover fatigue. I toyed with Perfect Balance. Isn't TBAM [40]?
I believe I ended cutting Fit to give him a higher level of HT. Might need to revisit that. And yes, TBAM is 30.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
You made him ambidextrous. Why does he need offhand training?
I was flip floping between the two and ended up with both :). Opinion on which one should stay?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I intentionally skipped MA to reduce the number of supplements necessary. It's a great book with lots of crunch, but between Basic, Powers, Supers, and a few Power-Ups I already had too much source material.
I actually was writing him in a bit of a vacuum in a sense that I didn't have a clear view on a campaign and what source material would be included or not. In GURPS these decisions really need to be made up front because they will greatly influence your built. In this case, I believe I was somewhat leaning towards Basic + Powers for senses + Martial Arts (case in point, I even had a bunch of maneuvers at some point which I ended up cutting for simplicity). I passively did not consider Wildcards or Imbuement or KYOS.

Was I to seriously consider a Super campaign, I would have a different approach. I would implement KYOS for ST, damage, HP, DR and I would have an eye towards reducing many fine grain options, like reducing the skill list to maybe no more than 100 and/or heavily using WC! I would ignore many Perks and would vey carefully consider to reduce Martial Arts to a minimum (maybe except for hardcore martial artists). I would also think about making some enhancements (like variable for innate attack) automatic/free instead of having every energy blaster having to include it.

There is a lot of these decisions to be made for a GURPS Super game and while I tried many times, I almost always ended up picking HERO from the bookshelf and run with it. But I very much like the idea of a GURPS Super campaign.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Not allowing source based neutralize/static in your setting? Overall this looks pretty good... I missed vibration sense and I suspect that parabolic hearing is a bit low (this version would treat 8 ft away the same as 1 ft, which seems low for hearing whispers a room away through barriers).
What do you mean by not allowing source based neutralize/static in your setting? Good point for Parabolic Hearing!


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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'd cut a bit here. Blindness, sure. Code, mmmm, not sure. Flashbacks, not randomly under stress. Guilt, mostly from being a catholic (quirk). Light sleeper means he'll be low on fatigue. Obession seems to overlap with SoD. Would he do one without the other? Charitable seems to overlap with SoD, doesn't he primarily help out those Hell's Kitchen (not all over NY). He's not really selfless either, he has lots of other motivations from the prior -200 points in disads.
I agree the number of disadvantages is a bit too much and should be consolidated. Which will hurt my total cost ;)!

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
A good list, more reflective of an experienced DD. I'd still wildcard quite a few of those into one focus for simplicity.
Agreed, I did not have a clear vision on how to use WC to be honest.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
At those levels, they would be the focus of the campaign, which doesn't work well if you have lots of PCs with similar setups. I suspect that 75% of the time he isn't babysitting either Foggy or Karen, so I'd go 6- for the dependents... or perhaps make it one roll for either at 6-. That doesn't mean they aren't around more often. It just means that 9% he had to drop everything to focus on their problems relative to the 38% with one 9-. Other times he interacts with them as NPCs/friends. If he needs them as allies the ally number can be higher than the dependent #.
Good points!
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:02 PM   #45
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Batman

Businessman!-14 (WC-2) [6]; Detective!-16 (WC) [24]; Martial Artist!-18 (WC+2) [48]; Scientist-14! (WC-2) [6]; Tactics-20 (IQ+4) [20]
Speaking of WC, this is a very neat way to make Batman (as oppose to having 200 skills on his sheet). From a point balance perspective though, what is the benefit of having Martial Artist!-18 (WC+2) [48] instead of say Karate 21 (DX+5) [24] and Judo 21 (DX+5) [24] or Karate 24 (DX+8) [36] and Judo 18 (DX+2) [12]?

Sure Martial Artist! is broader but it seems pale in contrast with having much better core skills (and parry).
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:15 PM   #46
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

If going the trouble of redesigning ST for lifting, may as well redesign thrust too. What if Thrust was just 1d*ST/10?
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:15 PM   #47
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by DreadDomain View Post
Speaking of WC, this is a very neat way to make Batman (as oppose to having 200 skills on his sheet). From a point balance perspective though, what is the benefit of having Martial Artist!-18 (WC+2) [48] instead of say Karate 21 (DX+5) [24] and Judo 21 (DX+5) [24] or Karate 24 (DX+8) [36] and Judo 18 (DX+2) [12]?

Sure Martial Artist! is broader but it seems pale in contrast with having much better core skills (and parry).
It's more rounded. That ! covers "ninja" weapons, bare-hand fighting, acrobatics, jumping, and stealth in combat. I've basically described that one as "if you see a ninja do it in combat in a film, this skill covers it." The "in combat" part is in important since it wouldn't cover poisoning someone, impersonation, breaking in, etc. 48 points also gives him 4 "WP" to spend (updated first post to mention how I've used them), which allows him to avoid crits, buy success, and even boost his skills on occasion.

It compares pretty well to lots of various skills and competes reasonably well with high attributes. Also, with his attributes, wildcards nicely give him a 14 in any business or science skill even when he isn't doing detective stuff (which is a higher WC).

Last edited by naloth; 01-12-2019 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:16 PM   #48
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
If going the trouble of redesigning ST for lifting, may as well redesign thrust too. What if Thrust was just 1d*ST/10?
That seems like it would drastically lower damage (if I understand the proposal). One of the perks of KYOS is that you get both damage and lift at every point of ST.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:31 PM   #49
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by DreadDomain View Post
This version was not necessarily based on the Netflix version but more on my perception of what Daredevil is. It might be dated because it is still coloured by the comic books while John Romita Sr was still drawing the book mixed with what we have seen in Netflix. That's why I still see him with a Code of Honor (Hero) and even more importantly, swinging.
Sure, there are lots of different ways to approach him.

I also considered what I would do for a 750 point game. Mostly it involves stunts to compete (imbuements?)

Quote:
I was flip floping between the two and ended up with both :). Opinion on which one should stay?
Honestly, neither really came to mind when I thought of him.

However, it is a good way to bolster what he can do especially using batons. If you keep one or the other, I'd focus on having him use DWA too.

Quote:
I passively did not consider Wildcards or Imbuement or KYOS.
Wildcards help me simplify/focus what a given PC does. Long skill lists get to be a pain when you also have a dozen powers to keep track of.

Imbuements just *work* for certain concepts, like using "Project Blow" for a throw & return weapon.

KYOS seems to balance cinematic supers better. Batman won't be taking blows from this Superman (even with the best armor in basic available at TL he'll be negative in 1 hit), but he won't be a fine red mist either. Likewise, it tempers the gun stats so you don't need absurd DR levels and offers practical reasons why many metas don't use off the shelf gear.

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(maybe except for hardcore martial artists). I would also think about making some enhancements (like variable for innate attack) automatic/free instead of having every energy blaster having to include it.
Yes, that sounds like a fair starting point. I've never actually run HERO. Came close, but our group played GURPS for years prior to that so it was easier to just use GURPS.

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What do you mean by not allowing source based neutralize/static in your setting? Good point for Parabolic Hearing!
Super is worth -5% for anti-powers and -5% for tech countermeasures. You stripped the -5% for 1 fatigue out of biological and left the -5% for tech countermeasures. I jumped straight to "Super." Just curious why since -10% isn't that big of a difference.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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It's more rounded. That ! covers "ninja" weapons, bare-hand fighting, acrobatics, jumping, and stealth in combat. I've basically described that one as "if you see a ninja do it in combat in a film, this skill covers it." The "in combat" part is in important since it wouldn't cover poisoning someone, impersonation, breaking in, etc. 48 points also gives him 4 "WP" to spend (updated first post to mention how I've used them), which allows him to avoid crits, buy success, and even boost his skills on occasion.

It compares pretty well to lots of various skills and competes reasonably well with high attributes. Also, with his attributes, wildcards nicely give him a 14 in any business or science skill even when he isn't doing detective stuff (which is a higher WC).
Ok, it makes sense. However, it might require a predefined list of Wildcard. If it's too loose, one might come up with the WC Ninja! and easily argue that it does include the "out of combat" stuff as well. Even with Martial Artist! as you defined it, does it man it cannot be used at all for acrobatics, jumping, and stealth out of combat? If not, Batman would need these skills on top of MA!
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