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Old 01-15-2019, 08:15 AM   #31
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
It always generated a new tonnage value between the worlds in the BTN pairing fresh. There were no provisions for those lots that were not bid upon the previous day.
Could you not hand wave that away? When the market closes, the market closes. Lots left over may be reconfigured into smaller or larger lots, or sold off as cargo, returned to stores or sold off to the local market.

Were you tracking all the other vessels that were in the market? If the player vessel isn't the only one picking up freight, maybe the others are going to the big players as side cargo.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:18 AM   #32
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Could you not hand wave that away? When the market closes, the market closes. Lots left over may be reconfigured into smaller or larger lots, or sold off as cargo, returned to stores or sold off to the local market.

Were you tracking all the other vessels that were in the market? If the player vessel isn't the only one picking up freight, maybe the others are going to the big players as side cargo.
For such a simulation to work, one would need to track all available ships, determine where the sailing master will head towards, etc.

In addition, each "AI" routine to simulate the decision making process for each of the ship captains etc - would have to take into account the needs of the ship as far as payments, crew payroll, etc.


Then there is the issue of distribution of skill levels as far as each of the "NPC" captains are concerned.

One does have to wonder however...

There are rules to simulate the variation of shipping lots - plus the variation in the cost for freight shipping rising or falling. Presumably, this would be a function of how available ships are to carry the fright (ie, competition) as well as how few ships there may be to meet the needs of the situation. I wonder if I can tie it into that somehow.
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:30 AM   #33
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
For such a simulation to work, one would need to track all available ships, determine where the sailing master will head towards, etc.

....

There are rules to simulate the variation of shipping lots - plus the variation in the cost for freight shipping rising or falling. Presumably, this would be a function of how available ships are to carry the fright (ie, competition) as well as how few ships there may be to meet the needs of the situation. I wonder if I can tie it into that somehow.
I wasn't actually suggesting that you did track all other traders, I believe the system already takes that into account. Re-rolling each day is perfectly reasonable if all those other traders are operating behind the scenes.
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:14 PM   #34
SteveS
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

I wonder whether there are enough active Traveller (and similar game) players to make other gaming groups a viable source of other bidders, if the bidding were made available in a database shared on-line, possibly with generic sets of trade statistics (for example, a rich, population code 8 world Jump-1 from an agricultural population 7 world stands in the table for all such pairs). Some code pairs might exist in only one place in charted space, given the number of variables, but rare combinations could be combined into bins. For example, everything beyond Jump-3 could be treated as long-distance trade. Bins would also avoid the problem of using the charted space map, which is copyrighted material.
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:46 PM   #35
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

Hi SteveS,
I'm not certain I understand what you're suggesting. My first thought was that you're suggesting something like a MMORPG kind of environment, inviting people to bid - possibly recording how they do it or something to that effect.

Then I figure I'm likely not getting what you did intend, thus a request for clarification.
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:51 AM   #36
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

In the mean-time, I have been looking at a few of the solo "traveller" resources and the implication is that if you don't pick up the cargo then and there, someone else snaps it up.

On that basis there is no requirement for the system to "remember" previous cargo offerings.

If you are going to generate a mechanism for dynamically keeping track of the cargo movements on all worlds within the sub-sector / sector / known space, you would be better placed using a formal programming language rather than co-opt a spreadsheet. For preference I would use an object-oriented one and treat each system as a separate object with the trade between systems as transactions between objects (using the ships that support trade as the actors). With a suitable instantiation protocol (based in the UWP) you should be able to generate a functioning trade system in conformance with the rules semi-automatically.

I suspect however that it probably isn't worth the effort other than for the exercise in OO programming (I might try a SCRATCH hack this w/e). I also suspect that it will point up too much inherent inconsistency in the random rules that Traveller runs under. If you don't pry too deep it looks like it makes sense and sort of fits together, once you dig around under the bonnet you find a rats nest of issues that require wet-ware to rationalise away.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:20 PM   #37
SteveS
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Default Re: Shipping in a Traveller Universe

hal, yes, I was kind of thinking of an MMORPG, except bidding for cargo -- transport and maybe speculative -- is all there is going on. The interesting stuff happens in conventional role-playing games, unless it catches on as a game of its own. In that case, it could generate a lot more of a market economy for the people using it just as a supplement to role-playing.

The key would be limiting the scope so the program doesn't get unwieldy.
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