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Old 07-13-2019, 04:31 PM   #11
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

I'm generally suspicious of changes that lower Mages' skill levels in the standard magic system. Skill-15 in a spell is handy because it makes 1-point spells free to cast and/or maintain, and as for most mages energy is a fairly limited resource this is important - making mages have to pay energy for low-cost spells that they haven't specialised in is quite a large change. Also, Skill-15 isn't that much for any offensive spell, because it's resisted (assuming it even works) based on effective skill, and with a -1 per yard of range penalty, Skill-15 is probably more like a 12 most of the time, at which point magic that allows resistance isn't super-reliable.

Another effect is that, because just about all spells worth having requite Magery 1+, almost all a mage's spells that they want to be seriously skilled in (20+) now cost at least four more points. That adds up fast.

Now, let's also consider the 'dabbler' or 'mage/X' type, who knows a few spells to buff themselves or to do stuff that's handy in their line of work but tricky to do in mundane ways. They probably have Magery1-2 and IQ12-13, so they can get Skill-12 with their spells for a point or two. Your proposed change would cripple these concepts, and they are often already marginal because they've had to find the better part of 50 points for IQ+Magery that if their main skillset is DX-based they wouldn't have otherwise had to pay.

Overall, I think this would be a quite severe nerf to mages at most levels of power and point values.

If you made spells Average skills, Magery-1 spells would be back where they started, and making them Easy would buff them and make Magery-2 spells see no change. At that point low-end Mages see a buff, and high-end ones (who presumably find use for those Magery-3+ spells) are nerfed. This might be desirable, depending on the game you want.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:42 AM   #12
Plane
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

Maybe we could have a "prereqs only" limitation for Magery 1/2/3 which exists only to allow learning spells requiring that but doesn't actually add to IQ for casting anything?

Just treating it at a 10/level advantage (not going to alter Magery 0, makes the math easier)...

Magery 1 (Switchable +10% Temporary Disadvantage -1 to IQ -20%) [9]
Magery 2 (Switchable +10% Temporary Disadvantage -2 to IQ -40%) [14]
Magery 3 (Switchable +10% Temporary Disadvantage -3 to IQ -60%) [15]
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:48 AM   #13
VIVIT
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

That would have unintended consequences; switchable advantages require a ready maneuver to switch.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:03 AM   #14
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post

Tell me, SJGF: am I worrying too much?
Yes.
Your idea seems straightforward and sensible. It does not change the spell difficulty progression, it simply amends a bonus system off to the side. In fact, if I ever run a game with the basic magic system again, I will adopt this rule.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:41 AM   #15
Black Leviathan
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

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Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post
Tell me, SJGF: am I worrying too much?
I think you may be. The calculation is simple and fairly elegant but I don't feel you're getting a lot of meat for those potatoes. With few exceptions the adjustment would lower spell levels by a point or two which isn't much of a change for rolls against spells that usually run in the 15-25 range. But it does shuffle around assumptions about what the average spell level in the game would be, things that mana and casting time reduction, or non-touch range is based off of. Ultimately I see this as just something that would prompt Magic users to buy more levels of Magical Aptitude so you end up with a point-tax on magic users and it gives you higher levels on spells that are often only taken as prerequisites for more impactful spells.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:09 PM   #16
Plane
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

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Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post
That would have unintended consequences; switchable advantages require a ready maneuver to switch.
Yeah but you could just leave it on unless you had to use your IQ for some other skill.

There's probably a closer match, where something only counts for prereqs but not for a bonus, but I can't seem to remember what it was.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:59 PM   #17
VIVIT
 
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Default Re: Limiting the Skill Bonus from Magery

But in excess of the prerequisite, I want it to count for a bonus. If a spell requires Magery 1, I want characters with Magery 2 to be at +1 to cast that spell.

You also have to take into account that characters would be at a penalty to use non-spell IQ skills in the middle of combat unless they waste maneuvers switching their magery on and off. Hefty penalties, too, in the case of higher levels of magery. That's a pretty huge limitation, worth way more than a net -10%.
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